who here open carries?

I open carry quite a bit...BUT...

I'm in Virginia, not Alaska.

I'm not in the military.

First, to reply to the thread topic....

I never open carry except at the range.
Otherwise I always carry concealed (which is why I obtained the concealed carry permit).

Now this...

1) what regulation says that i can not carry off post? How does the military have any business telling me that i can't carry off post?

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When you chose to join the military you also agreed to relinquish some of the rights that you enjoyed as a civilian.
One of those rights that you relinquished was the right to disregard verbal or written orders given to you by your commanding officers.

You also took an oath....

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

If an officer who is appointed over you gives any order that is not deemed to be unlawful, then you are obligated to obey that order.
You are obligated to obey that order in accordance to the Uniform Code of Military Justice AND by the very oath that you took.
If you think the order is unlawful then there are legal channels to challenge that order.
Otherwise it is not to be disobeyed, disregarded or circumvented.

Post commanders have a great amount of power when it comes to the troops under their command, whether those troops are on base or off base.
You are a soldier 24 hours a day, everyday, for the length of your enlistment, regardless of where you happen to be standing, on post or off post.

If you don't like the orders that your commanding officers give, well, that's just tough.
You signed the contract and you took the oath.
Suck it up and drive on.

Don't believe me? Try wearing a turban to work.

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When I was stationed at Ft. Carson there was a Major assigned to DENTAC who was a practicing Sikh, he was allowed to wear both a turban and a beard. In uniform his turban was Army green

When I was in we where disarmed on base and could only transport after registering your weapon with the provost martial. You still had to get your CCW off post and the sherriff refused anyone with the haircut as he called it.

If you don't like the orders that your commanding officers give, well, that's just tough.
You signed the contract and you took the oath.
Suck it up and drive on.

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I am active duty military with nearly twenty years in... and I am flabbergasted at all the comments about "taking an oath" and "suck it up". You do not loose your rights when you enlist or receive a commission!

I find it VERY disturbing that your CO has a standing order forbidding legal concealed carry while off post. If you meet your state's requirements to legally carry a concealed weapon, then your CO has, in my opinion, exceeded his/her authority and that this order forbidding concealed carry while in a liberty status is bordering on, if not downright, excessive and unlawful.

And I am sure that there are many higher ranking officers in your CO's chain of command who would not agree with this exceedingly disturbing and irrational order.

If I were in your shoes, and I am assuming you are enlisted, I would bring up my concerns to my chain of command. I would directly contact the Command Master Sergeant, who is the direct liaison between all enlisted and the upper chain of command.

The next time your CO holds a command muster and if he or she opens the floor for a questions and answer period, with all due respect and with the full knowledge of my direct CoC, I would confront him/her on this issue.

If this doesn't bring results, the next time your CO's boss comes for a visit and holds a command "meet and greet", if/when he or she opens the floor to questions, I would be the first person to stand and ask if he or she was aware of this order.

luigi said:

Do you really think the ALCOM commander is going to go for that? I am almost certain that the commander’s intent is that no member of ALCOM carry a weapon on post or off, period. Given there’s a war on I don’t think and article 15 is quite the career killer it used to be but I wouldn’t want to be the test case.

Direct order of your post commander. Who do you think is going to win the pissing contest, you or him?

Maybe they do maybe they don’t , are you willing to be the test case?

And he got away w/ it too.

It could but I’d bet even if you won, you’d lose

If it was overturned this guy wouldn’t be trying it now would he?

Bottom line, you agreed to cede some of your rights to the Army when you enlisted. The area Commander (who has a lot more friends in Congress than you BTW) has the authority to issue directives that are conducive to good order and discipline and like it or not this order falls under that. A similar order has been issued and upheld previously as have orders requiring SMs to register their weapons w/ the Post Provost Marshall and to store such weapons in the unit Arms Room.
You don’t have to like the order but you are obligated to obey or suffer the consequences. Or you can end your Military Career at the end of your current enlistment.

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Luigi,

I am familiar with this standing Army order in Alaska made by the General in charge of all Army forces in Alaska. It is a WRITTEN order. And the WRITTEN order clearly states that CONCEALED CARRY is off limits in Alaska, regardless of the permit status of the Soldier. The order came about when a Soldier drew his concealed weapon and fired a warning shot in the air outside a bar at a group of others who were threatening to kick his butt.

However, as I stated this is a WRITTEN order that prohibits CONCEALED CARRY only. It does not prohibit or even mention open carry. Thus, if I was the OP, I would open carry in a heartbeat. Because the order is WRITTEN, the Army must abide by the limitations of the order, and the order specifically prohibits concealed carry and nothing else.

Revolver Ocelot,
I open carry every day in Washington. You won't have any problems in Alaska. Check here: http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/forum.php
Especially the Alaska specific section.

We can't carry any personal firearms while in uniform, concealed or open, either on base or off base because the uniform regulations don't allow it. I have presided over re-enlistments and administered the oath in civilian clothes while open carrying because I believe to support and defend the Constitution is more important that wearing the uniform to do a re-enlistment.

When I was stationed at Ft. Carson there was a Major assigned to DENTAC who was a practicing Sikh, he was allowed to wear both a turban and a beard.

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How did he get his protective mask to seal?

I'll bet he really dreaded the yearly trip to the NBC "gas" chamber.

How did he get his protective mask to seal?

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He was a dentist I doubt very seriously he went to the gas chamber as far as I know he now works for DENTAC as a civilian and remained right here in Co Springs

However, as I stated this is a WRITTEN order that prohibits CONCEALED CARRY only. It does not prohibit or even mention open carry. Thus, if I was the OP, I would open carry in a heartbeat. Because the order is WRITTEN, the Army must abide by the limitations of the order, and the order specifically prohibits concealed carry and nothing else.

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NAVYLT I see what you're saying but I'd hate to bet my career on your interpretation of the order. I could see a very convincing argument that the commander's intent was to prohibit carry period.

I won't touch military policy as a topic, but having grown up in Alaska, I can say that open carry won't raise many eyebrows with the locals. This is especially true if you spend a lot of time hunting, hiking, etc., when a .44 revolver on the hip is sort of part of the attire.

The only time *my* eyebrows went up was seeing a guy walk into town with an AR15 on his shoulder. I asked about it, and it turns out some of my fellow natives like to use .223 for deer hunting. I think the round is underpowered for that, but we all have our preferences.

NAVYLT I see what you're saying but I'd hate to bet my career on your interpretation of the order. I could see a very convincing argument that the commander's intent was to prohibit carry period.

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Soldiers and Sailors can't be held responsible for having to read minds. Being a written order that specifies concealed carry it would be a very difficult case to bring if the Soldier was not carrying a concealed firearm. Heck, we had a written order that prohibited something, I can't remember what, maybe underage drinking or something... anyway, even though the written order contained the prohibition, we did not specify that violation was a punishable offense. When we took a guy to Captain's Mast for it, base legal advised him that he might have a case for dismissal at court martial because the order did not specify it was a punishable offense! It only stated the action was prohibited!

I am in Alaska, and have been since April this year. I was in Kotzebue for 13 weeks, the remainder in Anchorage. I have seen no one (except an eskimo on the tundra) open carrying. I did ask security if I could have a locker at the hospital to lock up my weapon so I would be protected on my trip to and from the hospital (I ride a bicycle), but that was a BIG no go. They even asked the Administrator.
ll

I live 200 yards from Fort Wainright and have talked to soldiers from
there. They sometimes do open carry, when off base. They know and
understand the no conceal carry order and it's reason. While they do
not like the order, they follow it.

Navy LT has got it right.

They know and
understand the no conceal carry order and it's reason. While they do
not like the order, they follow it.

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Really? What reason would that be?

And I bet there are many who DON'T follow it because it is not a legal order.

Seems to me that if this order was given to prevent another incident mentioned by NavyLT from happening again, the base CO hasn't gone far enough in ensuring that his soldiers do not unnecessarily put the civilian population in harms way. Has that base CO prohibited all personnel from consuming alcohol while off base?

If not, why not? Alcohol consumption is FAR MORE LETHAL and risky than CCW. Prohibiting alcohol consumption would prevent the possibilities of motor vehicle accidents caused by inebriated soldiers.

That order exceeds the base CO's authority and needs to be challenged. ASAP.

I open carry whenever I feel it best suits me. I carry concealed whenever it suits me.

Usually, I'll OC my 1911 in an Alessi Bodyguard shoulder holster when I'm wearing shorts (as I don't like to wear a belt with shorts) or whenever I'm hanging out at home.

If I'm wearing trousers along with my gun belt, I use an Alessi PCH IWB holster. I'm probably going to get a Crossbreed Supertuck for my SA XD-9 though.

Creature said:

That order exceeds the base CO's authority and needs to be challenged. ASAP.

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The order came from at least 2 or 3 levels above a base CO.



Brigadier General Raymond P. Palumbo
USARAK Commanding General

I open carried in parts of NV, AZ and CA.
Pretty much, only do it when I go hiking.
While hiking, open carry is more comfortable than carrying concealed.

While hiking, open carry is more comfortable than carrying concealed.

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I think open carry is more comfortable than concealed even when you're not hiking.

The order came from at least 2 or 3 levels above a base CO. Brigadier General Raymond P. Palumbo, USARAK Commanding General

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State wide then. And coming from a one star. Very interesting. I'm still wondering why hasn't he forbidden all alcohol consumption for personnel under his command...

Revolver Ocelot said:

evidently there was an incident some years back when they were about to deploy, I don't want to go into details about something I am uncertain of but you can find alot of it here and with the links provided there in.

unfortunatley it is a lawful order (i.e I'm not breaking any laws by following it). So as long as I'm here and I want to play by the rules I am limited to open carry, I would ccw to spite the rules but in the off chance I get caught concealing or use it to defend myself and it makes it into a report I was carrying concealed, regardless of whether or not I was in the right or wrong the military will see it as grounds for ucmj and I can't risk that.

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yup, good excuse to pick up a .44 mag and a cool rig to wear out on the town.

I don't open carry. I have a CCW permit and it allows me to open or CC, but I choose to CC. OC can draw all sorts of unwanted attention, and that is exactly what kind of attention it is; unwanted. I have no trouble CC'ing and even if it prints, it's still more discreet than OC. I also personally believe CC is more tactically advantageous in certain everyday situations over OC.

Brigadier General Raymond P. Palumbo USARAK Commanding General

Am I reading correctly is this a Army Reserve General? Would his order apply to Active Duty troops? When I was in the USANG there was a standing order on Fort Carson that PT uniforms were not to be worn in any post gym and no one was allowed in the gyms during PT hours 0600-0730 unless they had a profile. I went around and around with some civilian employees about it because I wasn't on duty when I went to the gyms

History is replete with idiots in a general's uniform.

And I maintain that it IS an unlawful order.

When I was in the Army, All personal firearms had to be secured in the unit's Arms Room and special permission had to be granted by the CO in order to draw your firearm. and even then I don't think that they were allowed in the living quarters of the barraks. Heck, in one unit I was in, we weren't even allowed to have a straight razor to shave with. You know, I think even the people living in post housing were required to register their personal firearms and store them in the Arms Room too. At least that the way it was at Ft Rucker AL in the late '70s.