Mueller Optics

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1858 - I agree about all the good vendors and businesses. If you reload, add Powder Valley Inc to the list of highly regarded places to do business.
 
why didn't muller just remove the speck of paint put the thing back together and send it back to him with the bent tube........ i know i'm never gonna buy a muller
 
This thread makes for a great study in Consumerism and mob mentality if nothing else.

However, if the photo that MOC posted shows the scope upside down, then what is that in the foreground? It looks kind of like a turret to me....

Really? Come on man look at an actual scope. What you see in the foreground is the section in the middle that all scopes have where the turrets are mounted. If you look you can just see one of the turrets on the right side of the photo. This is what I am talking about. People are trying to pick apart any tittle thing they can to defend the OP and attack the company. And in doing so are just just making themselves seem less credible.

I don't really have a Dog in this fight. I would never buy one of their optics because it isn't the type of material I use. However I feel that there is a lot more to this story than the OP originally let on.
 
Everyone is missing the point. Mueller screwed up. They should have never come here to rebut the claim. The mounting evidence has turned to tide against them, even if there are some that believe MAGS damaged the scope, everyone that has read this will remember a month later 'I read that article/post on THR and that guy had a bad experience with Mueller'.
 
For Mueller I relate a story…

About 5 years ago I got a kershaw 1560 knife as a gift. I found this knife extremely useful and was dissapponted when I left it on my bumper after cutting off a zip tie on a trailer and drove off.

I purchased a similar kershaw 1550 blackout from ebay for about half price it would be for a new one from kershaw. My dad used the knife several times and commented on how useful it was also. When we were at a gunshow a guy was selling them for $15 each. Seemed too good to be true but told him to get one since it looked identical to mine, same logos, everything. About a week later the liner lock in his broke in half and fell completely out. He took it to kershaw (they are local) to show them the problem and get it fixed, hopefully under warranty. Kershaw informed him it was a fake, a Chinese knockoff and they wanted to keep it to examine. They gave him a free real 1550ST blackout in exchange. They aren’t making a bundle off us at this point right?

I’m so pleased with their service I’m recommending my company put in a large order of kershaw knives customized with our logo, to hand out to good customers. It will be worth several thousand dollars and we will pay more per knife buying from the factory than ebay knockoffs but kershaw deserves it, and our customers deserve to get the real thing.

Sometimes it’s best to cut your losses and do right for the customer in the digital age since reviews spread like wildfire online. I monitor the web for my company’s reputation online also and it can be a full time job but it’s necessary now. Building brand loyalty is worth far more than a quick sale, as customers have their own networks of friends/family and you find you don’t even need to advertise eventually when you earn customers for life. You can’t do this for everyone obviously, but I’d nip this one in the bud and give Mags a replacement for his and get his kudos in this thread. Plus I really want to buy a Mueller APV for my 10/22 so I’m doing it for selfish reasons as well :p

There are other companies that earn repeat business through great customer service as well. Crimson Trace immediately comes to mind. I lost the allen wrench used to adjust the laser and simply asked what size it was so I could get another. They sent me 3 new wrenches, 2 sets of batteries, cleaning swabs, extra retention pins and more CT decals.

If it were me I’d give Mags a scope, get his defective scope back, figure out why it failed, and if you feel a design change is warranted to avoid that problem in the future (both pinching and the defect inside), fix it. See if you can replicate it. Bill the replacement scope to the design department if you must :)
 
I very recently returned a new scope to Mueller. I was having variability in my groups as I attempted to perform the initial sight-in of a new gun. I also felt I had undesired POI shifts after giving turret corrections.

I was uneasy returning the scope as I knew it was possible there were other causes for my poor groups, including a defective new gun, defective ammo, defective shooter, etc. The over and under corrections based on given clicks was my best clue. There was no physical defect to complain about so I knew I was at the mercy of Mueller.

I was quickly shipped a new scope. If Mueller was out to save a few bucks they could have said "no defect found" and forced me to prove the scope was defective. They did not nor did they not try to play any games we've seen other companies play who are too tight with the dollar. I'm heading to the range after work to try the new scope out. I think Mueller took care of me.
 
If these types of claims were few and far between, I'm sure we could support them but it happens more than you think and if you do it for one, we should do it for all of them.. Most customers admit fault and take us up on our trade-in program and that wouldnt be fair to those users if we replaced scopes just to those who make a stink about it on the forums..
If it were me I’d give Mags a scope, get his defective scope back, figure out why it failed, and if you feel a design change is warranted to avoid that problem in the future (both pinching and the defect inside), fix it. See if you can replicate it. Bill the replacement scope to the design department if you must

Sounds like good advise to me. If you have a common problem then fix it. Many have attested to the strength of tubes on scopes, I for one have never seen a deformed or collapsed tube on a quality scope.
 
What mounting evidence???

CarigC - I have read many of your other posts in different threads and have a good deal of repsect for your opinion and knowledge. In this thread you keep coming back to whose fault it is that the scope is crushed. Those sypathetic to Mags are simply saying it doesn't matter who is at fault, it's not worth Mueller's reputation to play hardball over what amounts to pocket lint for them.

We'll never know whose fault it is or even if the scope in the picture is Mags scope or not. What I ask is don't you think Mueller has made a huge mistake, given what is at stake for them?
 
Those sympathetic to Mags are simply saying it doesn't matter who is at fault...
And I'm saying the opposite. It DOES matter. Responsibility matters! It simply blows my mind that folks expect others to take responsibility for their mistakes. Anybody who damages their scope due to overtorquing the mounts SHOULD pay to replace it. Sh*t happens, learn your lesson and move on.

I am not in a position to say what Mueller should've done. Yes, maybe they would've been money ahead to just replace the damn thing and avoid this mess....this time. But what about the next, and then the next??? How long do you continue to reward stupidity??? I applaud them for doing the right thing, for taking a stand, sticking to their policies and not taking the easy way out.
 
I guess we just have a difference of opinion, and that's okay.

I'd rather see 100 guilty men walk than one innocent put to death. If I were Mueller, I'd rather honor 100 bad waranty claims than stiff - and have it be made public - one honest customer.
 
You just aren't getting the point though that while maybe the customer should have to replace it if they break it, they don't if they buy it from Vortex. So while it might not be right, it's how it goes. To stay competitive I don't think companies can just turn away this stuff as they will just loose all there customers to a company who will take care of this stuff and in the long run it will cost them a lot more than replacing a few scopes. It's not that I fault them for sticking to their policies. It's simply that I don't think you can have this policy in this day and age and stay competitive.
 
If I were Mueller, I'd rather honor 100 bad waranty claims than stiff - and have it be made public - one honest customer.

Not sure I can fully agree with that, simply because many companies couldn't stay in business with that standard.

Where I differ greatly from CraigC is that I'm not remotely convinced that Mags damaged his scope, and to the contrary it sounds like he knew exactly what he was doing when he mounted it. Someone without knowledge would not have even thought to claim they used an inch-lb torque wrench. All we have is a he-said vs. he-said situation with little way to figure out who's telling the truth. Mags is a fairly long-time member while MOC is a brand-new member, who we don't even know for absolute certain has anything to do with Mueller. And I continue to think it's quite possible that either Mags' scope was damaged before he ever saw it, OR Mueller mixed up his scope with some other customer's crushed tube scope.
 
I couldn't agree more or put it better. Wrestling in the mud over a trivial amount of money casts a huge shadow on the company. Whatever.
You're saying the company rep takes his time to give their side of the story and are ACTUALLY responding to the customers question and complaint and you find this to be a bad thing??? Unbelievable.
 
Yeah I agree with the above poster. While I side with MAG's on this, I don't think a company rep spending the time to communicate with customers and the general public is a bad thing.
 
I have 3 of their scopes and have had good experience with their customer service, whom I've called twice.
 
Really? Come on man look at an actual scope. What you see in the foreground is the section in the middle that all scopes have where the turrets are mounted. If you look you can just see one of the turrets on the right side of the photo.

That is why I said "what is that". The way the picture was taken, it is possible that an optical illusion made the ring to which the turrets are mounted, look bigger than they are.

People are trying to pick apart any tittle thing they can to defend the OP and attack the company.

The reverse is also happening, people are trying to blame the OP for things they can not possibly know, and defend the company.


I will admit, I don't know who is right in this situation...neither does anyone else in this thread...expect possibly Mags and Mueller.
 
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If I were Mueller, I'd rather honor 100 bad waranty claims than stiff - and have it be made public - one honest customer.

You realize though that companies don't run on hopes and dreams? They run on money.

Now a company that will replace anything - no questions asked - might be worth something to some customers. If you want that guarantee, then go with someone like that. HOWEVER, the company isn't paying for those endless repairs that aren't their fault: the other customers are paying for it through higher prices.

Now, if you're willing to suffer higher prices simply for the security of knowing that the company will cover damage even if you cause it, then fine. That said, there also exists a market out there for other people who don't think that a company should cover OUR mistakes. For those of us who like that idea, we can enjoy lower overall prices compared to the other makers. Would you rather pay $300 for a scope that you know you'll get replaced no matter what, or $175 for a scope of equal quality, but if you damage it by your own actions it's not covered. Personally, I'd rather save my money and just watch what I'm doing.
 
Would you rather pay $300 for a scope that you know you'll get replaced no matter what, or $175 for a scope of equal quality, but if you damage it by your own actions it's not covered. Personally, I'd rather save my money and just watch what I'm doing.
That is quite a statement, while I agree that ultimately the consumer pays for bogus claims that doesn't equate to the quality of a specific product. The fact that the company rep has posted that collapsed tube claims are not uncommon speaks loudly of the poor quality of their product. I can't believe there are many other optics company that would make that same statement on a public forum.
 
Actually, mgmorden Vortex Optics offer a no questions asked lifetime warranty on all their models and some of their scopes can be had for as little as 99 bucks.
 
HOWEVER, the company isn't paying for those endless repairs that aren't their fault: the other customers are paying for it through higher prices.
Exactly!!!


The fact that the company rep has posted that collapsed tube claims are not uncommon speaks loudly of the poor quality of their product.
Really? It's that far-fetched to believe a thin aluminum tube can be crushed in a steel clamp? Fact is, you can do this with any scope and any mounting system. Unless it's a cheap aluminum ring that will strip its threads first. No mount is designed to be fully closed. The ring needs to clamp against the tube firmly enough to hold it in place, not itself. So if you fully close the gap on any quality scope mount, it's gonna damage the aluminum scope tube. It's relatively easy with a four screw steel ring but would be especially easy with a heavy duty six screw mount like the one in question. Regardless of its marketing claims.
 
I was unaware of any claim made that the OP closed the gap on his rings, I think his claim was he used around 15 in. lbs., less than the mount makers recomendation.
Lets see some proof that other scope brands have such weak tubes. Of hundreds I have mounted I have yet to see anything but slight ring marks.
 
You guys are all ignoring the fact that the scope was defective - per a reputable customer - before the scope was *possibly* damaged. Initial claim made before mounting per Mags original post and dated Midway review.

Now is that a valid or smart reason to deny warranty service? Or is that an excuse to stiff someone?
 
Craig, I never said I closed the gap in the rings. There you go with your emotions again.
 
why didn't muller just remove the speck of paint put the thing back together and send it back to him with the bent tube........ i know i'm never gonna buy a muller

+1

This is just sad.
 
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