National Guard: President to bypass Governors' Consent

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As stated erlier the NG has never been a state organization. The 15.2 billion figure only accounts for the pay not the equipment.


What most folks have failed to realize is that the Ng has become one of the biggest welfare programs in the country and treated as such by the Congress.
A long look at the locations of armories and units, will quickly demonstrate that truth.

Sam
 
There is also an important difference between the Consitution as interpreted by TBL and the Constitution as interpreted by our elected government.

Bart, nice to see it only took you a couple weeks of licking your wounds
from the last time I gave you a virtual tar and feathering.

Elected? I keep looking for the Supreme Court nominee ballot in my mailbox,
but I just don't seem to get one. :rolleyes: Elected? Like our US Attorney General?
Elected? Like the people who want to say making naked pyramids of
prisoners in detention should *not* be prosecuted under the Geneva
Convention? Elected? Like the people who argued (hypothetically) that
crushing the testicles of a child to get information would be ok?

Sure, whatever the court says makes it right. At one time slavery was
ok, then it wasn't. At one time killing unborn babies wasn't ok, now it is.
We seem to have a history of subsituting one kind of slavery for another.

The majority of "our government" is not elected. What we're seeing is a
battle of not only different philosophies, but right and wrong, and what's
moral.

The neocons and the useful idiots who support them have completely lost
the moral highground. The beltway neocons know this and they also deeply
fear the American people. This is why they continue consolidating power in
DC and now we are seeing the backlash via the governors.

If you depended on that rabble to win independence, you'd still be a crown subject. It was the Continental Army that won independence.

That "rabble" included one of MY ancestors who was part of the Virginia Militia. Where was yours?

All revolutions eventually evolve into conventional conflicts between armies. Militias and irregulars can never defeat organized forces over the long haul. The only hope they have for victory is wearing down the people supporting the organized forces.

And how many successful insurgencies, revolutions, (or whatever term could
be used) of the 20th Century --also now moving into the 21st Century--
did you just ignore?

I suggest you read a little history....the myth of the invincible guerrilla is just that, a myth.

I know the neocons must keep repeating that mantra over and over to
avoid the current reality we are in. When that doesn't work, they can
just re-write history and/or slap a security classification on the cover
and bury it.

Honestly, I actually feel a certain amount of pity for you guys as you
chase your tails around in circles. I would at least have had some respect
for you guys if you rode shotgun with me on a few convoys and still believed
the tripe you do now. However, your viewpoint and overall understanding of
the world is quite limited since you never left the safety of your master's
backyard. You are "untested" to say the least.
 
Elected? I keep looking for the Supreme Court nominee ballot in my mailbox, but I just don't seem to get one.

Take a look at Article III of the Constitution, it explains why that part of the government is chosen by your elected representatives instead of you directly. You can also read the historical debates on the issue, though what that has to do with your original topic I have no idea.

The neocons and the useful idiots who support them have completely lost the moral highground. The beltway neocons know this and they also deeply fear the American people. This is why they continue consolidating power in DC and now we are seeing the backlash via the governors.

How sneaky of the neocons to have established the National Guard under Federal control in 1903 a full 100 years before people would start using the term "neocon." Although I am not sure how that consolidates their power since states can (and do) have their own militias separate of the National Guard?
 
And even communists go by different names now. Are you familiar at all
with Woodrow Wilson? No, didn't think so.

Bart, as mildly entertaining as it is to watch you attempt to navigate your
little boat around the doldrums of another batch of tar, you will simply
end up being pulled to the bottom by the heavy concreteness of your own
entrenched position. You, the other neocon/pseudo-American-patriot
-cum-globalists/or whatever name self-applied by those who seek to reduce
American liberty as intended by the Founding Fathers will, while seeking the
lure of earthly power, drag this country down to the bottom like Ahab seeking
his white whale in the end. What you are seeing right now is the rest of
crew, as represented by the governors in this situation, resist. We can
only hope that the sensible people can bring the ship back to a safe port.
 
TBL said:
You, the other neocon/pseudo-American-patriot -cum-globalists/or whatever name self-applied by those who seek to reduce
American liberty as intended by the Founding Fathers will, while seeking the lure of earthly power, drag this country down to the bottom like Ahab seeking his white whale in the end.

Curses! My evil plans are foiled! Not only have I been outed as a neo-con, pseudo-American-patriot, globalist; but my plans to despoil American liberty in order to increase my own earthly power are compromised as well!

How clever of you to see through my ruse and reach the correct conclusion instead of accepting a more obvious but less dramatic notion - like that maybe when we are discussing the writings of 56 separate people holding different opinions who lived 200 years ago, it is possible to legitimately reach a contradictory interpretation that is supported by history.

If you'll pardon me I must run out and determine if I have the votes to carry out my evil plans - the math is a bit of a conundrum since the Founding Fathers intended certain citizens only count as 3/5 of a vote for purposes of representation in the scheme of American liberty. Now that my evil plans to subvert that intent are compromised I must hurry! :evil:

<evil laugh>Muah ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!</evil laugh>
 
*Darth Vader intro music playing, El Tejon steps from the shadows breathing heavily*

I see our plans are now exposed, my Emperor. I will ready our troops for invasion.:evil:

I was under the impression that only the Left confused their precatory thoughts with Constitutional Law. I see this can happen on the right as well.
 
If you'll pardon me I must run out and determine if I have the votes to carry out my evil plans

Since when are "votes" needed? Just use money to bribe those who will cow
easily, blackmail the ones who ask for too much, and save the bullets for
those who stand in your way. When it's all over, bulldoze down the
smoldering ruins and have a commission issue a report to cya.

It's worked well so far, right? ;)
 
Well, I wasn't here 4 years ago. But if anyone thinks that a state can build its own militia that even comes close to the most meager and ill trained NG unit, they're kidding themselves. It isn't even just about funding, though that is a monumental task bordering on impossible. No state has the economic abilty to pay for all the things that are necessary to have a real "state armed force". This comment from 4 years ago is particularly interesting

State Militia's from volunteers, aged 18 - 45, male and female, who are NOT National Guard, but actual State Militia, each capable of bringing with them whatever is needed to protect their free states, be it arms, communications, medical, transport (ground and air), etc

That has to be a joke. I can't fathom that there is really someone out there who thinks that people can "bring with them" the equipment needed to form an armed force. Maybe it's been a while since some people got up from their reloading benches and went outside, but an armed force in 2011 is not equipped with a horn of powder, some lead balls, and your dads hunting musket. Do any of you know how to launch satellites for communications? Anyone on THR got a few hundred 1151 HMMWVs just sitting around? Maybe a few MRAPS and ASVs? With all of the commo, navigation, and RF scramblers of course. Perhaps a few crates of AT4s? We won't even begin to talk about Apache and Blackhawk helicopters, the various fighter and bomber airplanes, their support systems, armaments, launching sites etc.

Arms in 1776 were not sophisticated. The local blacksmith and wood-craftsmen could make a rifle that was comparable to what the British Regulars carried.

This is not the case anymore. Civilians do not have the funds, resources, or know-how to develop and build modern arms. Yes, I said develop. You think that once you kick the fed gov out that they are going to give you the plans to the F22 or the latest armor mod for an Abrams tank? Have fun starting from scratch.

Jeff White had it correct from the start. We do not live in a time where the average adult male can rush out of his home with his own gear and join others to build an effective fighting force. It's impossible. Your surplus BDUs that don't fit, and your SKS or even AR are not going to cut it. And how about training facilities? You can forget using places like Benning and Leonard Wood. Those are federal facilities, which was made clear most of you don't want. So I hope your state has the funds to set up training bases that can turn 40 year old out of shape gun store employees into lean mean fighting infantrymen.

Also, who do you expect to actually join these state guards. I took a look at some of the webpages for current state guards. I didn't see guys who look like they graduated Ranger School. I didn't even see guys who look like they graduated BCT. I did see what Jeff White succinctly described as rabble. Old out of shape rejects using mismatched uniforms (uniforms developed by the US ARMY btw). One real Army National Guard platoon would rip through most of those state guards like a paper bag.

State guards are a joke. The Army NG is and always has been a federally funded, trained, equipped and supported fighting force. And no state has the ability to put together anything that would even come close.

Just out of curiosity, if the seemingly hoped-for fight between the state guards and federal troops does come to pass, what exactly does Texas plan to do when a carrier battle group gets parked a few hundred miles from their coast?

I noticed v8fbird hasn't posted since around the time of this thread. Good. I hope he renounced his citizen ship and moved out of country since he obviously hates the comforts and opportunities the United States provided for him.
 
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State guards are a joke. The Army NG is and always has been a federally funded, trained, equipped and supported fighting force. And no state has the ability to put together anything that would even come close.

Just out of curiosity, if the seemingly hoped-for fight between the state guards and federal troops does come to pass, what exactly does Texas plan to do when a carrier battle group gets parked a few hundred miles from their coast?

I'm guessing the state militias will probably do about the same or better than the illiterate, malnourished peasants that are currently humiliating 'the most powerful military in the history of armed conflict' over in AF/PAK.

What certain people don't seem to realize is that, short of genocide, no one has yet come up with a particularly effective counterinsurgency strategy. And even with genocide, the insurgents still win. It's not about winning by taking and holding territory. It's about destabilizing everything until your enemy loses public support for their efforts.

Why is this such a difficult concept for some people to wrap their gourds around?

All of this should not be construed to mean that I think your average American conservative is going to be a particularly effective insurgent.
 
Hey, look, a thread that should have stayed dead!

I happen to have an oak stake right here...
 
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