Best AK-47 for the money?

When I was looking for an AK a few months ago I researched them until I was seeing them in my sleep. I went to about a dozen gun store in my area and looked at every conceivable iteration of the AK47 that I could find. I looked at WASR-10, Saiga, MAK-90, AMD-65 and even the non-AK but still freaking awesome VZ-58.

Unfortunately every WASR I looked at looked like it was assembled by complete morons. The parts appeared to be thrown together and the magwell surgeries that the WASR rifles have to go through at Century to make them compatible with double-stack standard AK mags varied greatly from rifle to rifle. About half of the WASRs I picked up had sloppy fitting magazines for this reason. The WASR rifles do not have the dimples on the side of the receiver and there is a lot of speculation as to the purpose of those dimples. Some claim that these help to hold the magazine in place and prevent wobble while others say that they are only cosmetic. I do not know the answer to this but I am fairly certain that they perform some function or Ivan would have never added them since "cosmetic" additions do not seem to be a common addition from the Reds.

The Saigas were very nicely built but in their stock configuration they are more like an SKS in that they have limited magazine capacity and no pistol grip. While this can be changed I didn't want to start grinding, drilling and changing it right after I bought it.

The only MAK-90s I could find were imported pre AWB and were in pretty rough shape. I liked one but it had the thumbhole stock and slanted receiver so a standard AK buttstock wouldn't fit it quite right.

I really liked the AMD-65s but only one local shop had them and they were priced about $150 too high (according to interwebs pricing).

My favorite rifle of all was the VZ58 and went to go look at them at peachstateguns in Covington. The gun was awesome and I liked the feel of the gun. Parts and magazines do not interchange with AKs though and AK parts are plentiful around here. While I was there he showed me an AK-47 made by I.O. Inc. The gun was brand new and built in North Carolina on US made receivers with Mossberg barrels and a mixture of Galil and RPK style polymer furniture. The rifle had the Tapco Slanted Muzzle Brake and Tapco G2 trigger group. I also like that i the receiver comes equipped with a side-rail scope mount assembly It has a Lifetime Warranty and was built very solidly. It was priced at $429 which was only a ferw more $$ than the rather shoddy looking WASRs they had so I bought it.

Over the last 4 months I have shot over 1500 rounds of Wolf hp through the gun without a single failure of any kind. I've read a lot of good and bad about the IO built AKs but all I can say is that mine has been perfect for me and I will be buying one of their Bullpup AK's in the very near future. I would not spend my own money on a gun that I didn't trust implicitly.

A Saiga conversion is they best deal going. I'm not saying it can't be done with a good deal on the base Saiga especially a used one. BUT if you factor in a new Saiga, parts, AND any tools, hardware, etc... you may need if you don't have them then the difference is small enough that if I factor my free time I see the pre-converted KVARS and such as a good alternative especially if the company that converts it provides a warranty over thier work. Do it yourself and you will void any warranty on you Saiga and you take your work in your own hands. Its not wrong to convert your own, or to buy a pre-converted model. I'm not snobby enough to say that one is SOOO much better than the other for anyone but me.

BTW, if you are going to buy a used Saiga for a base you can certainly buy a used, converted Saiga for the same price as converting it yourself. If still doesn't add up to me to do the work unless you really want to.

Do it yourself and you will void any warranty on you Saiga and you take your work in your own hands. Its not wrong to convert your own, or to buy a pre-converted model. I'm not snobby enough to say that one is SOOO much better than the other for anyone but me.

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A warranty on a saiga rifle is a bit superfluous IMHO. Also, if the rifle functions before you do the conversion you would probably have to try to do something to it that would make it stop functioning. If you are worried about warranty then give the gun good one over and test for function. If something doesn't look seriously out of wack then remember its an AK.

As to tools you don't have. Well there are very very few tools actually REQUIRED. I did one with a file, a screw driver, a hacksaw, and drill for the bullet guide an some of the rivets. A dremel does make things much quicker and easier. I think it is a bit disingenuous to suggest that the price of tools that are generally useful and nice to own ought to factor in the same way as that money just spent on a different gun. In the end you have gun plus tools as opposed to just gun. So even if you cannot borrow the tools well you will then have some basic tools which is nice. Also if you are like me saigas are addicting so you will get more than one use out of them anyhow.

As to the time spent doing it, I personally think there is a lot of value in the process of doing the conversion, particularly for those that might think it is daunting. In the end one will have a better understanding of their weapon and how it ticks. If you are not normally the type of person that does projects there is a sense of accomplishment, if you are then you'll likely enjoy doing it. For me my first saiga conversion was the jumping off point for giving me confidence to do more and more work on my guns.

If still doesn't add up to me to do the work unless you really want to.

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Well you will probably do it right. No guns with glued in bullet guides or some of the other silliness that the companies selling mass conversion guns have done. It is in all honesty a pretty small amount of work and a pretty minimal time investment. It seems to me that those who have never converted one have a habit of over stating the time difficult and risk to the gun involved.

Sure there are other viable options but in the average case I think a home converted saiga is dollar for dollar the best value.

The biggest draw back to the saiga conversion is once you do one you want to do more, be it a 12 guage, or 308, or just doing one that is a bit more elaborate. That's the boat I'm in now.

jon_in_wv said:

BUT if you factor in a new Saiga, parts, AND any tools, hardware, etc... you may need

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Saiga: $325
Parts: $150?
Tools/hardware: Either you have them already, or you know someone who does. If you're an absolute pariah alone in the world, you basically need to buy a drill and/or a Dremel. Gasp, the horror. You'll never be able to find another use for those outside of this project. Say $60.
Time: Maybe two hours of actual work. Maybe. Afterwards, you'll realize you could have done it in half the time if you had realized how ridiculously simple it was and hadn't been so worried about mucking something up.

So you're now at a high-end price of $535, if you're really enough of a Doris to hold a grudge against buying general-purpose power tools. That's still at least sixty bucks less than a preconverted gun - take the money you've saved and buy yourself a half-dozen mags, crack open a beer and admire your new drill and/or Dremel.

Is that a clear enough breakdown?

The prebuilts are a ripoff.

A warranty on a saiga rifle is a bit superfluous IMHO

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Probably very true

Tactical Ninja said:

Saiga: $325
Parts: $150?
Tools/hardware: Either you have them already, or you know someone who does. If you're an absolute pariah alone in the world, you basically need to buy a drill and/or a Dremel. Gasp, the horror. You'll never be able to find another use for those outside of this project. Say $60.
Time: Maybe two hours of actual work. Maybe. Afterwards, you'll realize you could have done it in half the time if you had realized how ridiculously simple it was and hadn't been so worried about mucking something up.

Is that a clear enough breakdown?

The prebuilts are a ripoff.

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I agree completely. It's really easy to do. If you're concerned about messing up just go slow. Buy good conversion parts the first time. It's better than having to buy more stuff in the future. Tactical Ninja is correct about the time it takes too. I think it was about two hours for me but I was going slow to make sure I didn't screw anything up. The truth is it would be really hard to do so. You'd have to basically try and mess it up to do anything wrong. I think it would take less time now that I've done it once.

Watch this tutorial and you'll see that it's really not hard at all.

http://vimeo.com/2787027

Here's mine after finishing. I left the stock forearm grip on but I may change that in the future. I'm definitely changing the pistol grip soon.

I love just how "High Road" some of you guys are.

Wispa, I left the stock forend on mine too - I actually quite like it. Differentiates it from any other AK variant and provides more grip area, what's not to like?

I bought a Bugarian 74 a few months back from Centerfire (CAI) price delivered was $389
with four mags and a bayonet. I installed a mount/rail and a 4x32 red/green dot and a L.E.D light on the side
total investment $490 ive ran about 400 rds through it so far without a single issue. It shoots 3 1/2 groups at 100 yards thats the best i can get out of it.

Vepr, no longer made, but one of the best and accurate AK'S, RPK machine gun stamped receiver, heavy barrel, rear sight adjustable for windage and elevation. $800 to $1000 on Gunbroker, in 762x39,556, and 308.

frankie whats with the shell holder on an AK? I am having a hard time understanding why you would ever need one of those on a magazine fed weapon.

Ricker:
Before you make your final decision-if not already-have you watched one of the best gun videos by "hickok45" on Youtube? He seems to never use a scope. "hickok45's channel" has also given me a new perspective. That "channel" might brighten your night or day.

I just watched him (third time) in a regular stance with his WASR, and hit a 15" metal plate ("ting") from 230 yards, at least four times in a row.
Some people use accurate rifles and have very good skills, yet others, like this gentleman, appear to have excellent skills and apply them to any gun they own.
My choice, if it were only possible....would be to have his skills, instead of ever feeling the impulse to spend money on a fairly costly rifle.

I have been shooting a friends Romanian WASR 10/63, and have had some jams with Wolf ammo during rapid fire. I have inspected it, and think that some slight grinding/polishing in one certain spot will take care of the problem.

It is what it is. I can hit a paper plate at 100yrds all day long, and will be adding one soon to my arsenal. For the price, it can't be beat. Some have even said that shooting a few hundred more rounds through it to "break it in" will make it run better. Sounds like fun to me.

I have shot 2 inch 5 shot groups with my converted Saiga. Its not exactly the norm though. Generally it shoots 4 shots into 2 inches with one shot opening the group up to 3-4 inches. My range has steel plates you can shoot at from 100-1000 yards. At 200 yards I can bang the largest plate, about 18x18 inches, with boring regularity. I consider my AK to be more than accurate enough for defense at anything within 200y. Outside of that I would rather have my Savage FCP-K. I consider the Saiga based AKs the best bang for your buck but many of the Romanian. Yugo, and Hungarian AKs are very good. My next one will no doubt be a Hungarian.

Wasr-10

I have shot 2 inch 5 shot groups with my converted Saiga. Its not exactly the norm though. Generally it shoots 4 shots into 2 inches with one shot opening the group up to 3-4 inches.

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Well, I think you have a few options to improve the accuracy you are reporting. These are the most common "tricks" I see online for having a "more accurate" rifle:

A) just cherry pick the best group it has ever fired and report that any time you talk about the weapons accuracy.

B) Stop shooting five round groups that are much more meaningful and just shoot three or at best four round groups. Don't forget you can repeat step A after you've done this.

C) Remember to do your internet accuracy report conversion which should cut 1/2"-1" off whatever you really shot. This step can be used with both of the above for maximum results.

I imagine if you do the above you will surely have a MOA or better rifle.

Hmmm. Choices, choices, choices.

Here's your answer:


http://forums.officer.com/showthread.php?107080-AK-47-74-rifles-from-around-the-world...

I say WASR. Ugly, crude, rough finish---but it works every time.

"For the money"--the WASR will put 30 rounds into the target as well as any other AKM.

And all AKM parts will fit the WASR. Not so for the Saiga or the Yugo.

WASR is the way to go for the money.

Fuego said:

I say WASR. Ugly, crude, rough finish---but it works every time.

"For the money"--the WASR will put 30 rounds into the target as well as any other AKM.

And all AKM parts will fit the WASR. Not so for the Saiga or the Yugo.

WASR is the way to go for the money.

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Again, I say "With the Kalashnikov, if you buy for cosmetics, you are wasting your money."
The only thing that won't fit a Saiga is the . . . .

. . . nothing.

Please list the AK parts that won't fit the Saiga, and I'll show you they can.

The Saiga is a brand new gun, made out of brand new milspec parts ('cept for the Klinton Krap).
The WASR is made out of some soldiers gun. How many rounds did he send downrange? Was it the company "full auto trainer?" With recycled parts, you just don't know.

Saiga rifle--- $335
K-var stock set----$100
Grip screw and nut-$ 10
G-2 FCG -$ 27
Lower HG retainer -$ 10
Bulgie gas block -$ 30
Bulgie frt.site base -$30
Bulgie comp $ 30
6 plugs for holes $ 1.50

Total = $573.50




SGL-21's go for @$699

Ricker:
Before you make your final decision-if not already-have you watched one of the best gun videos by "hickok45" on Youtube? He seems to never use a scope. "hickok45's channel" has also given me a new perspective. That "channel" might brighten your night or day.

I just watched him (third time) in a regular stance with his WASR, and hit a 15" metal plate ("ting") from 230 yards, at least four times in a row.
Some people use accurate rifles and have very good skills, yet others, like this gentleman, appear to have excellent skills and apply them to any gun they own.
My choice, if it were only possible....would be to have his skills, instead of ever feeling the impulse to spend money on a fairly costly rifle.

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I love that guys videos! He's my favoirite youtuber. Lots and lots of different guns shooting lots and lots of lead.

I bought two Arsenal SGL-21s when they were on sale for $500. About the nicest AK I have ever owned. The recoil break actually works too..... The money spent converting a Saiga would be better spent on an Arsenal rifle. The resale value will be more.

FMJMIKE said:

I bought two Arsenal SGL-21s when they were on sale for $500. <snip> The money spent converting a Saiga would be better spent on an Arsenal rifle.

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If Arsenals sold every day for $500, I would agree with you.

FMJMIKE said:

The resale value will be more.

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Most of us don't buy guns to turn around and resell them.

I've have a few AKs, CAI 74, STG-2000, Norinco NHM-91, home built "G" model, and most recently an Arsenal 107F that I picked up for $600 at a pawn shop.

I love the factory sidefolder on the Arsenal, plus it has an AK74 type front sight base.
If you look and wait long enough you will find the AK you want at the price you want.