Just got an email from my College

while I am not defenseless without a gun, I also don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

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Those who carry need to accept that, at some point, they might find themselves in a "gunfight" without a gun.

What would you use?

So, they're actually encouraging people to be sitting ducks. Awesome.

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So what would you suggest? What are your bright ideas? Allow concealed carry? Is that the magic answer to everything?

Ok, concealed carry is allowed. Then what? If the active shooter is in your room, what are you going to do? Draw down on him? What if the entire class is between you and him, and you can't get a clear shot? What if he pops you first? Or what if the shooter is on the other side of the building, or campus? Are you going to go hunt him down?

And that's not even considering the fact that just because it is allowed, doesn't mean people are going to be rushing to carrying. So do you call them mindless sheep up for the slaughter, and its their own fault because they refuse to carry? Isn't it smart to present options for these people?

Barricading yourself may not seem a very manly thing to do, but I would say that if the shooter is nowhere near you it might just be your best option.

I also don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

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This cliche is getting old, and is about one of the silliest thing gun owners say. Of course you don't want to bring a knife to a gunfight. But if a knife is the only thing you have, or the only thing you're allowed to have why wouldn't you want to learn it to the best of your abilities? I really get irked by people who complain about not being allowed to carry and then want to shift the responsibility for their safety onto others. I just don't get it. You're either prepared or you aren't. A gun is simply one more tool in your tool box. And if you're serious about defending yourself, why wouldn't you learn to use as many tools as possible?

Com,

Any gun owner with common sense isn't going to run across campus to hunt down a shooter. I hate that straw man. Gun owners usually understand the law and understand that they aren't supposed to take a cops role.

I get tired of people saying that we shouldn't complain about being refused the right to bear arms. Yes, you should be ready to fight with what you have. However, since the second amendment says "bear arms" I get reall pissed when I'm told I can't carry. Especially since I have went through local, state, and federal back ground checks that cover my mental, medical, and criminal records. I have also taken a class that taught the rules of engagement and required me to prove, with a pistol, that I can shoot well enough to hit the BG.

After going through all of that it really irks me to be told I am not responsible enough or smart enough to carry my gun. To go through all of that and still be told that I can not excercise my constitutionally protected rights seems ludicrious.

It isn't about refusing to make a plan. It isn't about trying to put off my protection on some one else. It is about being allowed to excercise my rights. It is about being told that I can not use every available tool to defend myself. Especially after I have proven that I am a safe, responsible, and mentally stable citizen.

Would you tell a master carpenter to stop complaining if somebody tells him not to use his hammer? Would you tell him, "well you can use the bottom of a socket wrench."

Its not a straw man. Its an actual question. A user said colleges were encouraging students to be sitting ducks. So what are they suppose to do?

Look at this thread. People have scoffed at the idea of a meeting about what to do with an active shooter. That schools aren't doing enough. So what are people suggesting? What are you suggesting? Like I said, fine you have a gun in class. But if the active shooter is nowehere near you, what are you going to do?

There has been very little strategy or tactics. Its mostly people griping about how they can't carry. Yes it does suck. So either live with it, or work to change it.

So it irks me when all gun owners can contribute to threads is "carry a gun", "carrying solves everything." when there is a lot more to defending yourself then just having a gun.

No one has said you can't defend yourself. No one is taking away your right to defend yourself. So yes, I woud rather face a shooter with my own gun to shoot. But why would you not be prepared to defend yourself? Until CC is allowed on campus, why would you not take steps to improve your chances, using whatever was available?

FYI - My comments probably don't apply to you.

I'll just take it as a given that CCW is not going to happen on campus for my argument. It would be nice, but unlikely. So, where do we go from there?

How about abandoning the "duck and cover" mentality? Let's begin teaching students to fight back. Put the thought into their heads that anything you can pick up is an impact weapon. Spray the fire extinguisher and then thump them with the empty can. Carry a locking folding knife and learn how to use it. Maybe learn a little dirty fighting, like kicking them in the cajones or gouging out their eyes. Forty people trying to brain you with chairs might make one rethink the ease of shooting said forty people. Waiting behind the door then sucker punching the baddie from behind sounds good to me. Much better than "duck and cover". The list is endless, but these thoughts come from being cool, calm and collected in my chair at home. The thoughts have to be mulled over before the excrement impacts the oscillator.

How about giving our kids some actual uselfull information, rather than group-think? How about giving non-violent offenders some time off for lending their "inside" knowlege about improvised weapons to college kids? How about welcoming some folks who've "seen the elephant" on campus to have these meetings, rather than administrative types whose idea of resistance is wetting yourself?

Maybe start selling drinks in glass bottles on campus. I've seen one of two wieded with good effect in a few bar fights.

yeah well Com im a student at Mizzou , what do you want me to do, just sit there with my head between my legs and pretend/pray that im somewhere else?

That's why even on Mizzou campus we have a student for concealed carry organization. You may come up with ten thousand "what if" (what if an alien showed up and zap the gun out of your hand?) but fact of the matter is if there's an active shooter on campus i'd be alot safer in my room armed than not.

hmm, let's see, baracade the room and have a pistol pointing at the door? Does that idea sound silly to you Com?

Zoogster said

Only when they think of it that way, listening to the anti's talking points.

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That is the problem. They think that way. Reality isn't the issue, but perception is and stereotypical college student behavior typically is doing nothing to change that perception.

Look at this thread. People have scoffed at the idea of a meeting about what to do with an active shooter. That schools aren't doing enough.

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I may have came across dismissive of the meeting. I am in a way. When you are telling people to barricade the doors with tables, and the tables are lag bolted to the floor, you are doing a disservice to the students.

I would like to see the university give real tactical information. Barricading yourself in is a good idea, if you can. Teach them about the use of fire extinguishers, pepper spray, chemicals from the chemistry lab, and other improvised defenses. Make classes in self defense, Krav Maga, or Eskrima basics easily accessible at discounted rates.

I believe the "meetings" should be about more than duck, hide, and beg. More often than not meeting violence with violence reduces injury or saves lives.

I also believe that they should make CC an option. I am actually in the middle of a letter writing campaign. I'm trying to bring this issue to the attention of several state legislators.

But why would you not be prepared to defend yourself? Until CC is allowed on campus, why would you not take steps to improve your chances, using whatever was available?

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I agree with you that many gun owners fail to do this. I can not count the number of keyboard commandos I have run across. They are sadly out numbered by people in real life that believe a gun is the be all end all of defense.

Gun ownes love to say "when seconds count the cops are minutes away." Well when a guy with a knife is fifteen feet away, you don't have seconds. You better know something besides marksmanship.

Like I said, fine you have a gun in class. But if the active shooter is nowehere near you, what are you going to do?

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Having a gun on my person means I am prepared to use lethal force in defending myself, and those in my immediate area. On a campus of 50,000 students more than 1,000 students would probably be licensed to carry. Chances are high that he will run in to one or more. I am not going to search for the shooter, but if they enter my area, I will take the shot as soon as is practical.

The reckless endangerment of innocent lives is not allowed under the law. If the bullet leaves my gun I am responsible for what happens. In NC even if I kill the shooter, I can be held criminally and civily liable for any innocent person that I injure. That means, I attempt to get in to the "most optimum" position and take the shot if possible. My gun will not save every one, but it can help to bring things to an end sooner.

Edit to add:

I am no longer a college student. The way I have phrased my writing it may seem otherwise. I keep mentioning what I would do, and there is a reason why. I often have to take my dad to his doctor appointments. Since his doctor's office is on a university campus I can not carry. I can not even have my gun locked in the car. That means I have to leave the gun at my dad's home when I take him to the doctor. So, the rules do affect me. They affect tens of thousands of people that use the university medical systems in North Carolina.

The rules are about more than students. Students are only a piece of the equation. You also have to figure in the numerous people that work on campus to support the university and students. You have to take in to account the thousands of people that visit every year that are not students. The rules to protect "kids" from each other negatively affect thousands of adults.

i just carry my gun everywhere but the airport, i have my permit, and the odds of me being searched are very low. the security aspect outweighs the risk of being caught with it. i also carry a switch blade and a can of police mace, but that's mainly for rabid teenagers and wild animals.

yeah well Com im a student at Mizzou , what do you want me to do, just sit there with my head between my legs and pretend/pray that im somewhere else?

That's why even on Mizzou campus we have a student for concealed carry organization. You may come up with ten thousand "what if" (what if an alien showed up and zap the gun out of your hand?) but fact of the matter is if there's an active shooter on campus i'd be alot safer in my room armed than not.

hmm, let's see, baracade the room and have a pistol pointing at the door? Does that idea sound silly to you Com?

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Its honestly comments like this that irk the hell out of me, totally miss the point, and just go to reinforce that whole "I'm defenseless without a gun" mentality.

Where did I say anything about sitting there and taking it? Where did I say that you have to be the victim?

If for you your only options are to carry a gun or sit there and take it, that is your choice.


I want you to do more then just complain about how unfair CC not being allowed on campus is. I want you to think outside of the box, about what you might have to use to defend yourself against an active shooter. I want more then just a simple "well allow concealed carry." That is not a plan. That is merely one more tool to use to combat the situation.

Don't like the school's plan for dealing with an active shooter? Attend these meetings and try and change it. Don't just scoff at it. If they say barricade, and your tables are bolted down, why not point that out to them? Let them know the issues of having multile doors to the classroom. Maybe they'll listen. Maybe they won't. But atleast you've tried.

I swear Pro-2A people can be just as bad as the anti's.

BTW - Kudos to you and your college-mates for your CC organizations. I hope they work for you.