Shipping a rifle at the post office

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Alex45ACP

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I want to ship a rifle and magazines to myself at a relative's house in another state. I've already checked the ATF web site which says this is legal (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-additional), and the USPS web site which says they will ship a rifle (http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm).

However, I want to avoid as much hysteria as possible. What is the best way to go about this? I'm already planning on printing the regs and bringing them with me to bypass the inevitable debates with the counter people.
 
Sounds like you've got it well in hand. If the clerk gives you a hassle, show them their own regs - if they still resist, call for a supervisor and repeat. The law is on your side, so there's really no way they can outright refuse.
 
I did it before. Have everything boxed up, ready to go. Walk on in with your box under your arm, wait in line, get to the front, and politely inform them that you are shipping a long gun. DO NOT PUT ANYTHING ON THE BOX THAT WOULD INDICATE IT'S A GUN! MArk it Fragile or whatever. Pay to insure it or have some sort of registered mail or delivery confirmation. The clerk when I did it didn't bat an eye. Hopefully yours won't either. If they do, follow kingpin's advice above. I think that if you don't make it a big deal, they won't either.

JOsh
 
What do you do when they DO refuse? We have a new Postmistress and she has decided you need an FFL to ship long guns and even my local dealer is not allowed to ship a handgun back to Taurus!!! I'll be calling the ATF Monday morning to see if we can get things straightened out. I have shipped several long guns in the past, but this new woman doesn't think it's legal. I already printed off the Postal and ATF regulations, but she thinks her rules are better.
 
Happened to me this weekend at two different post offices. The People who work at the post offices don't have a clue as to what the laws and regulations are!!
 
What do you do when they DO refuse?

If it were me? I'd show them their own regulations, and demand that they do their job. If they refused, I'd get their name, and report them to whoever their superior is.

The USPS is in SERIOUS trouble, financially. I'd make it clear to both the clerks/supervisors at the post office and whoever their superior was that their refusal to allow a legal shipment had just lost them business. I'd also let them know that once I finished shipping the gun through one of the other shipping companies, I'd be advising all my shooter friends (both in person and online) to do the same.

Happened to me this weekend at two different post offices. The People who work at the post offices don't have a clue as to what the laws and regulations are!!

Sadly, you're correct. More times than not, clerks seem to decide that they know better, regardless of what the actual rules are. That's why it's so important to bring the regs with you when you ship, and politely, but FIRMLY insist that they follow their own rules.
 
Good advice when dealing with ANY government agency. Do your homework first, know exactly what you need to do, and how it should be done, then you can tell them what needs to be done, how to do it, and where they can find their own regulations. Knowledge is power and if you have the knowledge, you have the power.
 
Hold on here a minute. You cannot ship to just anyone.
It has to go to an FFL or C&R. You dont need an FFL to ship but the person it goes to has to be. You do NOT have to tell them its a rifle. You SHOULD NOT tell them its a rifle as the post regs state that you only reveal that to the postmaster if you have to. You can ship to yourself but the others have to ship to an FFL
 
When I left Alaska, I shipped a long gun to myself, care of my wife, to our house in Kentucky. I opened the box when I arrived myself.

I never bothered telling the post office folks that it was a rifle. They didn't need to know. So why would YOU tell them?

Aaron
 
This is the official, posted-on-the-internet by the ATF boys final word on what you can and cannot do when it comes to mailing firearms at the United States Post Office.
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html#shipping-firearms-usps

Q: May a nonlicensee ship a firearm through the U.S. Postal Service?
A nonlicensee may not transfer a firearm to a non-licensed resident of another State. A nonlicensee may mail a shotgun or rifle to a resident of his or her own State or to a licensee in any State. The Postal Service recommends that long guns be sent by registered mail and that no marking of any kind which would indicate the nature of the contents be placed on the outside of any parcel containing firearms. Handguns are not mailable. A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
[18 U.S.C. 1715, 922(a)(3), 922(a)(5) and 922 (a)(2)(A)]

Q: May a nonlicensee ship firearms interstate for his or her use in hunting or other lawful activity?
Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

Now then, on the issue of whether you have to tell the US Post Office counter employee, “Hey Steve! I got me a Thirty-Thirty lever-action assault weapon with a laser-beam aimer and a banana-clip in this here box, and you better not give me no lip about it!,” please read:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped; except that any passenger who owns or legally possesses a firearm or ammunition being transported aboard any common or contract carrier for movement with the passenger in interstate or foreign commerce may deliver said firearm or ammunition into the custody of the pilot, captain, conductor or operator of such common or contract carrier for the duration of the trip without violating any of the provisions of this chapter. No common or contract carrier shall require or cause any label, tag, or other written notice to be placed on the outside of any package, luggage, or other container that such package, luggage, or other container contains a firearm.

Note the specification “common or contract carrier.”
FedEx is a “common or contract carrier.”
UPS is a “common or contract carrier.”
Billy Bob’s Toss ‘em and Loss ‘em Package Manglers is a “common or contract carrier.”
You have to give each of them written notice that you are shipping a gun.
Their form, that they require you to fill out at their counter, has a specific place on it where you have to declare the contents of your package.
I have many-a-time listed “rifle” as the contents when shipping at UPS.
Only reason why I ever use UPS though, is when I’m shipping ammo (in a separate box) on the same shipping errand.
I can give you the 411 on how to ship ammo if you ever feel like doing that. It’s a piece of cake.

It is a felony to fail to tell FedEx, UPS, or Billy Bob that you are shipping a gun.

Guns shipped through UPS must be shipped from a Customer Center (generally referred to as a "hub").
See http://www.ups.com/content/us/en/locations/custcenters/

UPS specifically prohibits their outlet centers "UPS Store," etc. from receiving guns or ammunition from customers.
Don't even think about it.

The United States Post Office is NOT a “common or contract carrier.”
The USPS is a federal government agency, and as such, is excluded from the “common or contract carrier”requirement to notify as to the contents of the box being a firearm.
You do NOT have to make any declaration to the counter clerk as to the nature of the item you are shipping.

Finally, this gets us to the question as to whether a firearm is somehow a “hazardous material,” that would be unmailable under the regs governing mailing explosives, medical waste, or suspicious white powder. You have already read the regs on what things are not mailable. Guns are not mentioned. Moreover, why in the world would the ATF be posting a FAQ http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/ that says you CAN mail guns, if in fact their sister federal agency, the Post Office, was of the official position that guns cannot be mailed?!!!

Finally, what if the clerk asks you, “Hey man, what’s in the box?”
Do you have to answer?
Do you have to answer truthfully?
Do you have to tell the “whole” truth (i.e. “Its machine parts…” or “It’s a high-speed horizontal magazine dispenser”)
I don’t know the answer to this, as it may pertain to the exact letter of the law.
Frankly, I don’t think the letter of the law addresses these questions.

I’ll wager the Postmaster has the authority to inspect the contents of any package for unmailable items.
How much you can stand your ground, or play games, when put to a specific question as to contents is something somebody should look into.
I would err on the side of telling the whole truth.

I have heard third-hand stories of postal clerks requiring persons to prove that the gun is unloaded.
It never has happened to me, or to anybody whom I know personally.
The poor schmucks it did happen to were probably the dopes who announced, unsolicited, the contents of the box.
KYBMS!!!

Bottom line is, the post office clerk NEVER asks what is the contents!
Just make sure the package is wrapped in accordance with postal regs.
Technically, postal regs say you have to use only PAPER tape on the exterior of the box.
I’ve never seen them enforce this. I always use cellophane tape – and lots of it.
The last thing I want is an AK-47 clattering around in the back of the mailman’s Jeep because I was to cheap to use the right box, or enough tape.
If you have done a completely crappy or inadequate job of sealing the box, the postal clerk will say something to you.
You won’t believe some of the train-wrecks of box wrapping I have seen at the Post Office.
Put the gun in a good-quality, plain cardboard box, with a good tape-job, and a permanently-affixed, printed-and-legible address label, and there is zero chance that you will have any sort of confrontation, with the postal clerk.
Wear a tie, stand up straight, and act like you know what you are doing… and KYBMS.

If you do this, the contents of the box will not be questioned, or that you will not have to cite any of the aforesaid laws and regulations.
 
Alex45ACP I want to ship a rifle and magazines to myself at a relative's house in another state. I've already checked the ATF web site which says this is legal (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unli...rms-additional), and the USPS web site which says they will ship a rifle (http://pe.usps.com/text/pub52/pub52c4_009.htm).

However, I want to avoid as much hysteria as possible. What is the best way to go about this? I'm already planning on printing the regs and bringing them with me to bypass the inevitable debates with the counter people.

1. Pack rifle or shotgun in box (only dealers and manufacturers can mail handguns)
2. Weigh and measure
3. Pay and print USPS postage and shipping label on usps.com
4. Drop off package at post office
5. Go back home

There is no ATF or USPS regulation that requires a nonlicensee to inform the USPS that they are shipping a rifle or shotgun. (dealers & manufacturers DO have an additional form to hand over when shipping handguns)
It is easy unless you make it difficult on yourself.

joshk-k: ...and politely inform them that you are shipping a long gun.
Why on earth would you do this?....it's not required and only invites problems.


mscott What do you do when they DO refuse? We have a new Postmistress and she has decided you need an FFL to ship long guns and even my local dealer is not allowed to ship a handgun back to Taurus!!! I'll be calling the ATF Monday morning to see if we can get things straightened out. I have shipped several long guns in the past, but this new woman doesn't think it's legal. I already printed off the Postal and ATF regulations, but she thinks her rules are better.
Don't bother with ATF. If she refuses to follow USPS regulations then ask for the name and phone number of her supervisor.


magnumman44 Happened to me this weekend at two different post offices. The People who work at the post offices don't have a clue as to what the laws and regulations are!!
Postal regulations are complex and make gun laws look simple. The clerk doesn't know because they rarely know when they are shipping a firearm.


kingpin008:...The USPS is in SERIOUS trouble, financially...
It's been in the red since....forever:D. They are prohibited by law from turning a profit so they keep getting bailed out by Congress.
 
Thanks guys, I didn't know that I didn't have to tell them what's in the box. Do they ask what it is if you're insuring it? If so can I give a vague answer like "machine parts", or should I just tell them it's a rifle?
 
Another wrong answer......

W.E.G.
...It is a felony to fail to tell FedEx, UPS, or Billy Bob that you are shipping a gun...

How many times are you going to post this nonsense?:banghead::banghead::banghead:

It is NOT a felony and never has been. Read the actual laws cited in those FAQ's.
Every time someone ask about shipping you post the same FAQ answer from the ATF webpage........even though it has been shown time and again to be factually incorrect (A fact admitted to by ATF).




Alex45ACP Thanks guys, I didn't know that I didn't have to tell them what's in the box. Do they ask what it is if you're insuring it? If so can I give a vague answer like "machine parts", or should I just tell them it's a rifle?
If you pay and print your postage and shipping label on UPS.com or USPS.com they never ask what the contents are. UPS and FedEx COMPANY policies (called tariffs) require notice when you are shipping a firearm. Failure to do so is not a crime, but will void any insurance claim if the package is lost, stolen or damaged.

Labeling a package "machine parts"? Please. A firearm in pieces is still a firearm, just as a bare stripped receiver, lower or frame is still a firearm under Federal law.

When shipping via common carrier to someone OTHER than a licensee (dealer, manufacturer or collector) you must provide WRITTEN notice to the carrier.
 
Now then, on the issue of whether you have to tell the US Post Office counter employee, “Hey Steve! I got me a Thirty-Thirty lever-action assault weapon with a laser-beam aimer and a banana-clip in this here box, and you better not give me no lip about it!,” please read:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sec_18_00000922----000-.html

(e) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to deliver or cause to be delivered to any common or contract carrier for transportation or shipment in interstate or foreign commerce, to persons other than licensed importers, licensed manufacturers, licensed dealers, or licensed collectors, any package or other container in which there is any firearm or ammunition without written notice to the carrier that such firearm or ammunition is being transported or shipped;

Sorry, but you've misread the law. It's a common mistake, I made it myself once. Emphasis added to clarify the actual meaning. You DON'T have to notify the common carrier IF you ship to a dealer, importer etc. You DO have to notify if you ship to anyone else, including yourself.

Now as a practical matter, you want to notify them anyway otherwise your insurance will be compromised.
 
In 25 years I have NEVER been able to mail a gun or ship a gun via UPS or Fed-Ex if they knew it was a gun. Every time I have been told that they don't ship guns. Yes, I printed the regs and policies to show them and they refuse to look at them. I have tried numerous different offices in several different states where I lived over the years with zero success. Not once has a gun been accepted for shipping if I told them it was a gun.

I no longer tell them. Don't know what else to do. If it ever comes up how do they prove I didn't mention it to the clerk?

I disassemble a long gun to make a shorter package that doesn't look like a rifle. The USPS terminals are full of thieves. Word the address so not recognizable as a gun (Fred's rather than Fred's Gun Shop).

Good luck. I have had none if I play by the rules.
 
Well I boxed it up & went to the post office, the clerk didn't even ask what was in the box and I didn't bring it up. Mission accomplished :)
 
I’ll wager the Postmaster has the authority to inspect the contents of any package for unmailable items.

Nope.

The Postmaster or any other federal employee or law enforcement officer must have a warrant to open first-class mail.

Lower classes of mail are another story. If you send something parcel post, the post office may open and inspect it for mail-ability. If you send something priority mail, they need a warrant.

Aaron
 
In 25 years I have NEVER been able to mail a gun or ship a gun via UPS or Fed-Ex if they knew it was a gun. Every time I have been told that they don't ship guns. Yes, I printed the regs and policies to show them and they refuse to look at them.

I just mailed a shotgun interstate about two weeks ago via Fedex 3-day ground, which was cheaper than the USPS. When I insured it for 750, she asked if I was shipping golf clubs and I said "No, just a shotgun". She smiles and jokingly said, OK, as long as you aren't going to shoot me".....and she was VERY much smiling and joking. Took my money, gave me my tracking number and said have a nice day.
 
Maybe call ahead and talk to the postmaster and tell him what your interested in doing. Print out the pages from the atf and usps that say its ok as well as bring along copies of the reg.
 
I've mailed several C&R rifles through the post office. At first I would tell them it was a rifle and they only asked if it was disassembled. Since I always remove the bolt for shipping I can say "yes it is" and have never had them ask to verify it. I have been asked if a package contains glass or any kind of liquid. When I send rifles to be gunsmithed,I only sent the appropriate parts to be worked on,it makes a much smaller package and costs less too. Like Saxonpig,our UPS and Fed-ex will NOT ship guns period! I won't drive the extra 100 miles round trip to go to a hub.
 
In 25 years I have NEVER been able to mail a gun or ship a gun via UPS or Fed-Ex if they knew it was a gun. Every time I have been told that they don't ship guns. Yes, I printed the regs and policies to show them and they refuse to look at them. I have tried numerous different offices in several different states where I lived over the years with zero success. Not once has a gun been accepted for shipping if I told them it was a gun.

You are aware that you can't just drop off a gun at the local UPS Store right? You have to take it to one of their distribution centers, and leave it with their customer service dept. The UPS Store or FedEx/Kinko's won't take them.
 
The law is on your side, so there's really no way they can outright refuse.

My local PO outright refused since I was not a dealer. Even after they brought out a copy of the book. :banghead:

I had to go to the next town... after I called a head to the postmaster. No problem she said.

Needless to say the postmaster got a follow up letter with another copy of the USPS's own rules from their own website.
 
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