i can tell you that polycarbonate is extreemly tough to get into via impact. i once locked myself out of my house, and tried to break the "glass" in the front door to gain entry. my neighbor was home, so he knew someone was not trying to break in. neither of us knew that the previous owner has installed plastic into the door. i used at first, a rock, when that failed, i thought,"hmmm, must be tempered". so, i got my neighbors ICE SPUD! that, eventually cracked the moulding around the "glass". i never did gain entry. i waited at the neighbors for my wife to get home from her second shift job. some 6 hours later. now, in your situation, the one thing that crossed my mind is escaping a burning house. if it is a second floor safe/bedroom, i would sugest looking into one of those roll away ladders that you can hook onto the window frame. other than that, i suppose you could rig up some sort of remote control device that would spray mace, or peppre extract into the b.g.'s face, or maybe some sort of dye like they use in bank robberies. other than that, and of course the video system, i think you have it pretty well covered. i am glad to see i am not the only one who worries about stuff like this. i do not have a safe room, but i really would like one.
Any reason not to stay in a safe room
- Thread starter FriedRice
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scaatylobo said:
I think the situations you bring up are specifically excluded by the OP's post
FriedRice said:
9mmepiphany is correct. Other than prepping for fire, the other issues are overkill given my specific situation. I'm sure I'd be safer living in a bunker and driving a tank. But I'm not THAT high profile and I will not reconfigure my entire life out of fear that I missed something.
The polycarbonate on the windows was a thought but getting out during a fire, even just a common household fire is something to consider. Tactically, I think I'm better off without it. I will discuss with local LE how they will handle a possible alarm call and figure out how to ID them safely. Cameras all over the house, bars, etc is over the line for me.
Thank you for putting forth the ideas that you all did. It was helpful for me to think them through.
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The polycarbonate on the windows was a thought but getting out during a fire, even just a common household fire is something to consider. Tactically, I think I'm better off without it. I will discuss with local LE how they will handle a possible alarm call and figure out how to ID them safely. Cameras all over the house, bars, etc is over the line for me.
Thank you for putting forth the ideas that you all did. It was helpful for me to think them through.
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Also forgot to address burglary. It's possible, but provided I am not home, they can take whatever they like. I don't care about things. Just my life. If they've been there once then they've met my guns, and again, there are much easier targets around here where they will never see a gun.
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Ok, missed one thing. I don't answer the door unless I know who is on the other side. And when I ask who it is, I am not in front of the door, I'm armed, and the alarm is on. When I identify who it is, I shut the alarm off, reholster and let them in. It's gone okay so far.
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One thing to also consider is how fortified do you want your house? I could easily have my house hardened to the point where it would take a battering ram to get through my door, the problem with that is if I'm in a situation where I need emergency medical treatment then EMS will have a very difficult time getting to me. I onestly feel you have a pretty sound plan so far FriedRice. You made a good point about not living a life of paranoia and fear. Have a good plan, the training and confidence to carry it out and continue living your life.
easyg
Member
I think that your plan sounds like the smart thing to do.
If the alarms go off, retreat to the safe room and wait till the police investigate the alarm.
That's the whole point of having an alarm system and service.
There's really only two scenarios where staying in the safe room might not be the best option:
One has already been mentioned...a fire.
Of course you're not going to stay in a burning house, but neither is the criminal.
Not only would it potentially be suicide, but also the fire department and EMS and cops would soon be on the way to fight the fire.
The other scenario is this:
What if the alarms don't trip, but you hear something suspicious?
Few things are more unsettling than the notion that someone is hiding somewhere inside your home.
This is when you must decide whether to call the cops, ignore the noise, or investigate for yourself.
If you decide to call the cops and stay in the safe room, then the cops will most likely be forced to break down your front door to gain access and search the home.
Just food for thought.
If the alarms go off, retreat to the safe room and wait till the police investigate the alarm.
That's the whole point of having an alarm system and service.
There's really only two scenarios where staying in the safe room might not be the best option:
One has already been mentioned...a fire.
Of course you're not going to stay in a burning house, but neither is the criminal.
Not only would it potentially be suicide, but also the fire department and EMS and cops would soon be on the way to fight the fire.
The other scenario is this:
What if the alarms don't trip, but you hear something suspicious?
Few things are more unsettling than the notion that someone is hiding somewhere inside your home.
This is when you must decide whether to call the cops, ignore the noise, or investigate for yourself.
If you decide to call the cops and stay in the safe room, then the cops will most likely be forced to break down your front door to gain access and search the home.
Just food for thought.
robmkivseries70
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Rather than cameras, motion detectors, operating separately in each room and wired into the "safe room", could give the location of any number of disturbances e.g. fire ,pet, or intruder with out being as obtrusive.
Best,
Rob
Best,
Rob
lloveless
Member
1) I think having signs in the lawn announcing your affiliation with an alarm company means you have something to lose. Small ones on windows and doors OK.
2) You are alone. Get a dog. Just one for companionship, and to let you know when something just isn't right before the alarms are tripped. They also are a barrier to BG's
3) In the country we routinely check our house, out buildings, and land when the dogs (a pack of 13) barked. Sometimes skunks, possoms etc. in the hen house. Other times neighbor's cows or horses visited. No one came to visit without prior arrangements. Don't be too paranoid. Be safe and reasonable.
ll
2) You are alone. Get a dog. Just one for companionship, and to let you know when something just isn't right before the alarms are tripped. They also are a barrier to BG's
3) In the country we routinely check our house, out buildings, and land when the dogs (a pack of 13) barked. Sometimes skunks, possoms etc. in the hen house. Other times neighbor's cows or horses visited. No one came to visit without prior arrangements. Don't be too paranoid. Be safe and reasonable.
ll
EasyG, that's a good point. I will be learning to clear my house shortly. And I will go through my safety issues point by point with my instructors to determine if it would EVER be indicated for me to clear my house. My alarm is set everytime I go in or out a door, so I can't imagine how they would get in without setting the alarm off, even if they had a key. The alarm is sophisticated enough to tell me what window or door has been breeched and there are motion sensors throughout the house. I can get an idea of what happened, but not that sure how useful it would be. I also am concerned about over-fortifying my house because I could fall down the stairs, have a heart attack, etc, and there needs to be a way for help to get in. These issues are just as likely as having a serious BG get into my house. I looked around today and there are a few others in the area that have alarm signs up. Like I said, common burglar wouldn't bother. And as far as I'm concerned, they can take whatever they want. The stuff is insured and it's just stuff. The alarm signs don't stand out.
I did think about a dog but I'm gone too long during the day for that. And my lifestyle isn't very conducive to having a dog. I'm not that active and I travel some. I wouldn't put an animal in service like that unless I could give it a really great life. I can't.
Good suggestions. I'll pick up a fire extinguisher for the bedroom and double check batteris in the fire detectors. Thanks for your help.
I did think about a dog but I'm gone too long during the day for that. And my lifestyle isn't very conducive to having a dog. I'm not that active and I travel some. I wouldn't put an animal in service like that unless I could give it a really great life. I can't.
Good suggestions. I'll pick up a fire extinguisher for the bedroom and double check batteris in the fire detectors. Thanks for your help.
My plan is similar to yours. I don't know if this possible for you but if my family had to get out of the safe room besides using the window, we can escape going through subfloor into the crawlspace. One of floor boards is only partially nailed in and covered with carpet.
One or two story home?
I assume it is a detached dwelling, the garage reference. But it could be a town home, not detached.
Safe room on the first floor if a two story home?
If detached, are there any windows on the sides of your home? Typically builders will only put windows on the front and back of homes unless the plan calls for windows on two walls in a corner room.
If single story does the hallway to the safe room have any corners or is a straight avenue?
If two story does the stairwell have a turn or is it straight?
In my home I have a turn with landing halfway up the stairs and a half wall at the top vs. a banister. The best defensive position is at the top of the stairs and not isolated in a room where you are confined. Always have the ability to maneuver in any tactical situation. Either to regain the tactical advantage or to high tail it out of there. If you have no land line and use a cell, any room can be a safe room, other than a bathroom.
In the virtually zero chance that you would have to engage BG's then the safe room is still available as a defensive position.
Confining yourself to a room permits any BG's to have free run of your house until LE arrives.
A concern over losing communications is unwarranted from a practical standpoint. Your typical BG's are not gunna do any of the things that a military would do to interdict command and control. They just ain't that smart. Unless you have a reasonable expectation that a bunch of pros are gunna be hitting your house.
If it is a one story house use a safe room, two story control the "high ground" and limit the BG's mobility to the first floor. Get on the phone and call the cavalry. You will know when the cops show up after you told the dispatcher that you are armed and in X location. Cuz the cops are not gunna know if you are the home owner or a BG pulling a fast one.
Fake LEO's, don't worry about it. If it is a fake LEO then it would be the initial entry and not the cavalry.
The key to being safe is the fact that you make your home an undesirable target cuz of the signage, keep your car in the garage and exterior lighting.
I assume it is a detached dwelling, the garage reference. But it could be a town home, not detached.
Safe room on the first floor if a two story home?
If detached, are there any windows on the sides of your home? Typically builders will only put windows on the front and back of homes unless the plan calls for windows on two walls in a corner room.
If single story does the hallway to the safe room have any corners or is a straight avenue?
If two story does the stairwell have a turn or is it straight?
In my home I have a turn with landing halfway up the stairs and a half wall at the top vs. a banister. The best defensive position is at the top of the stairs and not isolated in a room where you are confined. Always have the ability to maneuver in any tactical situation. Either to regain the tactical advantage or to high tail it out of there. If you have no land line and use a cell, any room can be a safe room, other than a bathroom.
In the virtually zero chance that you would have to engage BG's then the safe room is still available as a defensive position.
Confining yourself to a room permits any BG's to have free run of your house until LE arrives.
A concern over losing communications is unwarranted from a practical standpoint. Your typical BG's are not gunna do any of the things that a military would do to interdict command and control. They just ain't that smart. Unless you have a reasonable expectation that a bunch of pros are gunna be hitting your house.
If it is a one story house use a safe room, two story control the "high ground" and limit the BG's mobility to the first floor. Get on the phone and call the cavalry. You will know when the cops show up after you told the dispatcher that you are armed and in X location. Cuz the cops are not gunna know if you are the home owner or a BG pulling a fast one.
Fake LEO's, don't worry about it. If it is a fake LEO then it would be the initial entry and not the cavalry.
The key to being safe is the fact that you make your home an undesirable target cuz of the signage, keep your car in the garage and exterior lighting.
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A.H. Fox said:
You say that with such confidence, I must ask, "Why not a bathroom?"
Well, since most bathrooms are really small, the ability to find cover if they start to bust in is pretty much impossible. No "big stuff' to hide behind. Can't run around to make it hard to hit you with a bullet. Some bathrooms don't have a window. If they bust into your master bedroom and you run into the master bathroom...well...there ya go...hide in the tub.
A.H. Fox said:
Thank you...it just had me confused because you seemed to say it with such certainty.
I would offer the in older homes the cast iron claw foot tub is the best cover in most people's homes. Even a fiberglass tub common to most modern homes provide concealment. Iit has been my experience, at crime scenes, that folks still shoot over a tub rather than at it...I'm sure it is left over from the childhood experience of hiding in tubs. It surely provides as much cover as your half wall:
While I'll admit that many guest baths are a little on the small side, most Master Baths I've seen in modern construction certainly have room to hide in and windows. A common layout, on the West Coast, is a corridor flanked by closets leading to the main room, which then divides in two directions to individual sinks areas as well as the WC and the shower area. There are often windows at the split which would illuminate anyone entering. In this layout, hiding in either the shower or WC would offer a perfect field for defensive fire, while requiring a intruder to swing over 90 degrees to bring his weapon to bear
IllHunter
Member
Another bath +++
Taking cover in the loo provides a tidy place to throw those soiled panties! Protracted stand off would be better with a drink of water and a toilet. And yes, cast iron tubs will stop most handgun rounds. And another thing, do any of your neighbors run wireless networks. From my townhouse I get a choice of several networks, even if my power is down, my laptop on battery is comms for over an hour. Thats three layers, 1)land line phone (no power required, but line is vulnerable) 2)cell phone (Metro area overlapping sell towers very very hard to impact) 3)Computer in room. But I like the idea of camera on the entry points. Gonna look into having them web based? so I could see them on laptop! My considerations meld several previously mentioned. Second floor gives me the high ground, emergency egress available but that bathtub sounds better and better.
Taking cover in the loo provides a tidy place to throw those soiled panties! Protracted stand off would be better with a drink of water and a toilet. And yes, cast iron tubs will stop most handgun rounds. And another thing, do any of your neighbors run wireless networks. From my townhouse I get a choice of several networks, even if my power is down, my laptop on battery is comms for over an hour. Thats three layers, 1)land line phone (no power required, but line is vulnerable) 2)cell phone (Metro area overlapping sell towers very very hard to impact) 3)Computer in room. But I like the idea of camera on the entry points. Gonna look into having them web based? so I could see them on laptop! My considerations meld several previously mentioned. Second floor gives me the high ground, emergency egress available but that bathtub sounds better and better.
Porcelain and cast iron tubs, and even tiled bathrooms offer significant ballistic protection over most interiors of a home. Most rounds that impact really hard objects lose significant energy and terminal performance even if they make it through those objects. It also offers a good chance of deflection of rounds that impact at less than optimum angles.
Although unless someone is spraying your home with rounds I can think of better things to be doing than hiding in something that limits mobility.
The same primarily hard surfaces and small interior space of a bathroom would also greatly contribute to maximum hearing loss if you fired a gun in a bathroom.
Those same properties that give bathrooms the acoustics that cause many to sing in the shower will rapidly destroy your hearing.
Hearing damage would be significantly greater and more rapid in a bathroom than anywhere else in the home.
Although unless someone is spraying your home with rounds I can think of better things to be doing than hiding in something that limits mobility.
The same primarily hard surfaces and small interior space of a bathroom would also greatly contribute to maximum hearing loss if you fired a gun in a bathroom.
Those same properties that give bathrooms the acoustics that cause many to sing in the shower will rapidly destroy your hearing.
Hearing damage would be significantly greater and more rapid in a bathroom than anywhere else in the home.
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Wow, I can see how these threads weave around all over the place. I doubt anyone will be spraying rounds into my bedroom, and it's on the first floor. I'm having fun watching you guys discuss the tactical advantages of a bathtub though. Carry on. 
Zombiphobia
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Reasons to stay in Safe room:
-The bad guys are better armed than you
-The bad guys outnumber you so much that you can't realistically expect to be able to shoot them all
-You stashed a hefty supply of beer in it
-Cops inform you that they are curently responding to a bank robbery, officer down, terrorist attack, or other reason that they think requires the attention of the entire police force.
- You have really bad diarreah and a toilet IN your safe room(it could happen)
-Your family is a high-profile political/religious/whatever figure that many would consider good kidnap/assassination target
-You are an unpopular politician
- You are sick
-Cops are on strike(I dunno if that only happens in movies or if it really does)
That's currently all the reasons I can think of to stay in a panic room
Reasons to exit/not enter safe room:
-Your house is burning
-Bad guys are few in number(3-)
-Bad guys are poorly/un armed
-The bad guy/s are high-profile high-reward figures and you aim to collect
-Bad guy is brutalizing your pets
-Bad guy is petite elederly woman(it COULD happen)
-you are John Rambo, Jason Bourne, or some other professional skull-crusher
-you are psychotic
-you are suicidal
This is about all I can come up with without being OVERLY ridiculous. And this is all assuming you have surveilance equipment in said panic/safe room and are actually able to determine the above.
-The bad guys are better armed than you
-The bad guys outnumber you so much that you can't realistically expect to be able to shoot them all
-You stashed a hefty supply of beer in it
-Cops inform you that they are curently responding to a bank robbery, officer down, terrorist attack, or other reason that they think requires the attention of the entire police force.
- You have really bad diarreah and a toilet IN your safe room(it could happen)
-Your family is a high-profile political/religious/whatever figure that many would consider good kidnap/assassination target
-You are an unpopular politician
- You are sick
-Cops are on strike(I dunno if that only happens in movies or if it really does)
That's currently all the reasons I can think of to stay in a panic room
Reasons to exit/not enter safe room:
-Your house is burning
-Bad guys are few in number(3-)
-Bad guys are poorly/un armed
-The bad guy/s are high-profile high-reward figures and you aim to collect
-Bad guy is brutalizing your pets
-Bad guy is petite elederly woman(it COULD happen)
-you are John Rambo, Jason Bourne, or some other professional skull-crusher
-you are psychotic
-you are suicidal
This is about all I can come up with without being OVERLY ridiculous. And this is all assuming you have surveilance equipment in said panic/safe room and are actually able to determine the above.
therewolf
member
I can't help feeling that the one thing that's going to ACTUALLY happen is something none of us will think of, OP.
Preparedness is great(primary, IMO) but adaptability and substitution are important, too.
They say luck is at the intersection of opportunity and preparedness...
Preparedness is great(primary, IMO) but adaptability and substitution are important, too.
They say luck is at the intersection of opportunity and preparedness...
It's entirely possible that I could still be injured or killed in my home despite what I do for preparation. Any of us could. I choose not to live in fear, or in a bunker. That's just not a happy place. What's the point in living if you're so focused on where the next attack is gonna come from? I've done some reasonable accomodations to my home, and have a pretty decent plan that isn't overly paranoid or complex. I hope I never have to use it. But if the SHTF, and I'm underprepared, so be it. In the meantime, I'm going on with my life.
Thanks for the practical suggestions I've been given on this thread in regards to fire safety. That's good whether you're an armed civilian or not.
Thanks for the practical suggestions I've been given on this thread in regards to fire safety. That's good whether you're an armed civilian or not.
sxcamaro05
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You should consider having laminate installed on the windows of your "safe room". I know you consider your safe room to be "well thought out" but life rarely allows such luxuries as a thought out plan. A guy I grew up with had his house broken into by burglars. They cased his house, watched windows and broke a window in his bedroom. This woke him up and he fired at them sending them fleeing. He had not noticed that they actually tried to shoot him and missed while he was asleep with a Hi Point (1st floor bedroom).
My point is windows are your enemy, ploy carb. and laminate are easy ways to keep people out and give you extra piece of mind. The phrase their are easier targets worries me as it seems you are creating the illusion of safety for yourself. Not to knock your plan, it sounds very well thought out. Just some constructive cristicism.
My point is windows are your enemy, ploy carb. and laminate are easy ways to keep people out and give you extra piece of mind. The phrase their are easier targets worries me as it seems you are creating the illusion of safety for yourself. Not to knock your plan, it sounds very well thought out. Just some constructive cristicism.
I call that overly ridiculous. Are you kidding me? Bad guys are fewer in number. Last time I checked it only takes one bad choice to end your life (or bad guy in this matter). Regardless of age, a firearm or weapon can still do damage. I would not exit a safe room for a reward. Think about it they got a bounty on their head for being good at something and it sure as hell isn't hop scotch.
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answerguy
Member
Gosh, how unattractive are you?
easyg
Member
IMO this is NOT a good reason to leave the safety of your "safe room".
Pets come and go.
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