Are there any modern service pistols in 7.62x25 Tokarev?

I for one would LOVE a Glock 20 type handgun in 7.62x25....only reason I lean towards the G20 is th ecase length of the two cartridges...OAL I am not sure of.
But yes, a modern ,double stack Tok with a 5-6 inch barrel is something I have dreamed on for a long time.
IIRC,was therd not a similar ( albeit select fire design ) that competed in the Soviet pistol trials in the early 30's???I believe it was the "Swartslosse Standarte" ( spelling ???)or some such.
Also,I believe that at one time the Stetchkin was conceived as being readily convertible ( or producable) in both 9X18 and 7.62x25....now if only a semi only clone build could be done in THAT.....( hey,I LIKE Combloc arms,if not their politics)

gripper said:

I for one would LOVE a Glock 20 type handgun in 7.62x25.

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That just might convince me to buy a Glock.

That's how much I love the 7.62x25

Looks like the 7.62 Tok is only 2mm longer overall than the 10mm Auto, so I guess it's possible it would fit in the magazine of a Glock 20 or 29. The rim diameter is much smaller, though, so it would require a new slide as well as a new barrel.

Ok .....maybe a fo.lower redesign,new extractor and striker face of the slide....speaking of which-Glocks are striker fired and Tokarev ammo priming tends tp vary-hard primered subgun ammo vs.varying surplus'Sellier and Bellot'Wolf Gold,leftover Norinco and such....may have to work out a compromise striker weight and firing pin ....
Definitely would want a modern gun to be at LEAST able to safely run on the hottest stuff in circulation;so the proof loads may well wind up being epic.No point in making a glorified and oversized .32ACP.......

nope. you're forgetting .30 luger

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I'm aware of .30Luger, but 7.62 Tok and 9 Luger ARE descended from the same casing, at least sharing some dimensions.

Hey!I wonder how a rotating barrel lockwork would work here(?????)steel or polymer frame....full length slide rails(maybe "reversed"a la Petter, Sig NeuHausen or CZ....full lentj dust cover,and work in the removable hammer/sear assembly of the TT series....some kind of bushing that also helped to reduce impact damage.....
Ideas , anyone?could be the germ of a retro cool caliber.....

Externally,yes....OTOH;due to the issues of case geometry,length,operating pressure and slide velocity I am wondering what lockup would be optimal for reliability and safety...rotating barrel(cougar, MAB PA 15,or PX series)or the BHP/SIG/Glock camming block and lug set up....or old school pivoting barrel link like JMB,and Fedor Tokarev intended....

gripper said:

Definitely would want a modern gun to be at LEAST able to safely run on the hottest stuff in circulation;so the proof loads may well wind up being epic.No point in making a glorified and oversized .32ACP.......

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No doubt....The S&B I run through my CZ52 is listed at 1650fps....If it couldn't handle that I'm not interested.

gripper said:

I am wondering what lockup would be optimal for reliability and safety

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Well, this one (roller locking block) does work very well.....100% reliable to date but yea a modern high-cap (16+rounds) and real sights would be a formidable weapon to say the least!

RE the CZ52-what do you think about the underside of the chamber portion of the barrel-where it is undercut for the rollers-DOES that prove to be a weak point/fail point?Or has that been oversold as a warning?I knew about replacing firing pins from the stamped and rolled to the machined,but I was curious......ergos don't work for me compared to a TT33 or an M57,but I always liked the basic design...

gripper said:

RE the CZ52-what do you think about the underside of the chamber portion of the barrel-where it is undercut for the rollers-DOES that prove to be a weak point/fail point?Or has that been oversold as a warning?I knew about replacing firing pins from the stamped and rolled to the machined,but I was curious......ergos don't work for me compared to a TT33 or an M57,but I always liked the basic design...

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Not concerned about it at all.....The fellow who managed to ruin a couple 52s, while trying to become an internet legend all at the same time, was re-loading to ridicules pressures and velocities.

Purposely trying to blowup pistols that already handle extremely high pressures and then claiming they're weak is just sheer stupidity.....The ergos on the 52 are a little goofy but that universal Hogue grip has completely changed the feel and comfort of my 52. It's a superb addition!

My dealer had TT33 and CZ52s.....I looked them both over extensively and thought the TT33 (he had) was pretty crude in comparison to the CZ. My dealer felt the same way. Plus the CZ is unique, whereas the TT33 not so much so......The CZ went home with me and the TT33 stayed.....I'm very hapy with that decision, especially seeing as the 52 surplus is exhausted. You either have one or you don't!

what do you think about the underside of the chamber portion of the barrel-where it is undercut for the rollers-DOES that prove to be a weak point/fail point?

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Well, the rumours came from some clown who was TRYING to explodinate a CZ52, and while the area might have a bit less bulk of metal it is strong enough to last the service life of the pistol, as far as I know. Did Armorer's Kits come with barrels? I've seen pics but can't remember what the barrel loadout was in an armorer's kit.

And has anyone reported wear in the "thin spot" or just the one instance of catastrophic failure?

It is weaker than the TT-33. That is not to say all CZ-52's will fail using military ball rounds. Quite a lot blew up in Czech military service. A friend of mine was in the Czech Army. He told me it was universally despised and not trusted.

My only gripe with the CZ-52 were involving the grips. If felt completely wrong in my hands when compared to other pistols. Granted, I find the TT33 and variants also a bit awkward, but not something I would be reminded of every time I would pick it up, unlike the CZ-52.




I went the Hogue Handall route initially and it did provide some semblance to a "modern feel" handgun, but could never shake the 2x4 ergonomics for me.



Finding someone who actually wanted the CZ-52 to round his collection, I figured I might as well sell it and purchase a 2nd M57,a pistol that simply fit me (much) better.





As for the strength of the CZ-52, I think one would have to fire some seriously hot-rod
loads to run the gambit of damaging this pistol. They did seem awful stout.
I found both the CZ-52 and the TT33 plenty strong enough to product velocities needed to expand JSPs. I also found both !00% reliable.

otomik said:

a modern pistol in 7.62mm tok would be a better than a five seven. modernize a c96 with a extending shoulder stock and you have a great pdw.

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The Chinese did it: Type 80 machine pistol. They also had a nifty folding stock for it that doubled as a bayonet scabbard.

what about a Tok revolver...

Two cylinder convertible?....one in 7.62X25,the other on .327?effectively a four caliber revolver.....GP100,or Blackhawk convertible.....or wild card-a muscled up Nagant?Probably not a safe bit of frankenstéining,but who knows?Or .....a top-break convertible....

yeah, that would be fun, or something like a KT sub 2000 type gun, where you have a light easy rifle that packs a punch.

How about a 7.62X25mm Saiga with a 16 inch barrel?

Shadow 7D said:

yeah, that would be fun, or something like a KT sub 2000 type gun, where you have a light easy rifle that packs a punch.

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A while back KT had a survey on their website asking what people would like to see next from them. My vote was a bullpup style PDW in 7.62x25mm.

I read a post from a guy at J&G sales who converted a 1911 pistol to the tokarev round. said it was fairly straight forward.
http://jggunsmith.wordpress.com/2010/08/19/the-tokarev-projects/

I wonder how the conversion dealt with the greater OAL and different case geometry.......most 1911s have the feed ramp separate from the chamber,and the Tok IS a LONG little sucker......works in TT33s and the like because they were designed around the 7.62X25