Steel Cased ammo bad in an AR? Pshaw.

I don't buy that the polymer/lacquer doesn't leave something in the chamber. I had one rifle choke hard on some Tula. The subsequent brass cased ammo had funky crap smeared all over it which gradually diminished as more and more rounds were fired. Scrubbed the chamber. No more odd deposits. Hmmm.

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Which is easily explained by christcorp's post:

Forth: As mentioned, the reason "SOME" rifles have an issue with steel cased ammo after a little while, is because steel cases, even though still pretty thin, doesn't expand as well as brass; and thus, doesn't create as good of a seal in the chamber. This allows a little blow back with powder residue, grit, etc... That's why cases sometimes stick.

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Your "funky crap smeared all over it" is carbon fouling from the steel cases not sealing the chamber as well as brass.

If you are willing to trade reliability for accuracy, then if your gun works with steel cased ammo or not is moot.

However, if you fancy your gun "combat ready" for TEOTWAWKI and it doesn't work with steel cased ammo your are deluding yourself, as working with brass but not steel is proof its reliability is marginal.

In a SHTF situation ammo as good as Wolf will quickly be a very scarce commodity and it'd be great if your gun worked with worse.

YMMV, but if my gun doesn't work with steel cased ammo I consider it broken and either will fix it or get rid of it.

I've shot tens of thousands of rounds of Wolf and other steel cased ammo (never seen enough differences among them worth arguing about "better") and I've only had one AR that had extraction/ejection problems. Turned out it had a defective (out of spec) extractor and a replacement solved the issue. Brass cased ammo hid the problem. I could have blamed the ammo and been happy walking around with a marginally functioning rifle.

The steel cased ammo is also good at finding marginal mags as they have a bit more friction and will quickly show up as feed failures in your marginal mags once they've gotten a little dirty. I've noticed this most often in double stack handgun mags.

One rifle, with one brand, does not a history make.

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As with anything else, this may vary from one rifle to the next. If you want to know if your rifle reliably runs a particular sort of ammunition, you need to shoot that particular rifle with that ammo.

I've seen steel cased ammo cause issues with some rifles, and I've seen it run flawlessly in others.

Of course, I'm stating the blazingly obvious, but it's amazing how often discussions like this come up.

"After Wolf ammo bent my SKS firing pin and locked it up due to pierced primers....."
Isn't anyone else going to call BS on this one?

MythBuster said:

"After Wolf ammo bent my SKS firing pin and locked it up due to pierced primers....."
Isn't anyone else going to call BS on this one?

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And where does a steel case touch the firing pin??? And how does a firing pin going through the primer, have anything to do with the case???? Sorry, I am calling B.S. "On the Steel Case hurts your gun" part.

If your gun doesn't like steel case ammo, and doesn't shoot it reliably; don't shoot it.
If you don't like steel case because it's built in a commie country; don't shoot it.
If you're a reloader and need the brass; not shoot it.
If you're a competition shooter, and want the most accurate .5MOA ammo, don't shoot it.

If you're making this stuff up as you go, and just perpetuating a myth that has nothing to stand on, then you're wrong. One thing is for sure: A Russian designed gun; designed to shoot russian made steel case ammo; having the firing pin go through a primer; has absolutely nothing to do with the case being steel and potentially hurting a $10 ejector/$50 bolt. And there's definitely no financial logic, when under the WORSE CASE SCENARIO, you save $750-$1000 and have to replace a $10-$50 part.

Except I have seen that very thing happen at a Tactical Rifle Match...

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You saw the lacquer coating gum up a chamber or you saw a lacquer coated case get stuck? The internet myth is that the coating will melt off in a hot chamber and gum things up.

Guz; did you actually see LACQUER or did you simply see a "Stuck Case"????

Let's get something cleared up. If it's anywhere somewhat new ammo, then it's not lacquer. They don't make lacquer anymore. It's polymer. (if the ammo casing is greenish, is "MIGHT" be lacquer, but still unlikely).

The reason for cases getting stuck, is because steel casings don't expand as much as brass. Therefor, they don't seal the chamber as well. Therefor, they allow more blowback, powder residue, grit, grime, etc... Therefor, rounds tend to start sticking if you don't clean out the chamber regularly. "Not every round, but not every 500 rounds either". Also; because brass DOES expand better, DON'T SHOOT BRASS ammo after a lot of steel case ammo, without first cleaning the chamber. AR's have much tighter specs. You can shoot 200 rounds of steel without an issue; but shoot 2 boxes of steel and throw some brass ammo after that without cleaning, and you can definitely get some stuck cases.

Anyway; I really doubt that there was any real "Lacquer" melting off the ammo. Not unless it was some 7.62x54 or other older military surplus ammo.

On a SIDE NOTE!!!! If the so called lacquer (Polymer) issue is your biggest complaint, then get some silver bear, MFS, or others that are ZINC COATED steel cases. The price is almost identical to the polymer coating, but there is nothing on the casing except for zinc. Then you won't even have the Lacquer argument.

Gus saw an AR running Lacquer coated ammo lock up an AR15 solid.

I saw it, too as I was acting as the Assistant Match Director and running the shot timer for the competitor it happened to.

I once saw an AR lock up tight on good LC USGI brass case ammo. Does that mean LC ammo is bad?

Gus saw an AR running Lacquer coated ammo lock up an AR15 solid.

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Was it decidedly found to be the fault of the lacquer coating, the steel case or some other factor?

We all know how guns guys like to diagnose problems.

I once saw an AR lock up tight on good LC USGI brass case ammo. Does that mean LC ammo is bad?

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It's not an issue of whether a particular brand of ammunition is "good" or "bad" so please stop trying to shoehorn this particular incident into such a black and white paradigm.

What this is about is whether the gun runs or not. If you're going to shoot factory ammunition through your gun, it behooves you to test the gun with a variety of ammunition under various, but practical circumstances to see if any of them cause issues in that particular gun.

The bottom line is this:

If your gun doesn't run a particular brand of ammunition, be it steel cased Russian ammo or Black Hills Match Grade, don't shoot that ammo in that gun.

Some guns will run any and all of this ammo.
Some guns will not.

Regardless of how picky (or not) your rifle is, it behooves you to test the gun with a cross section of ammo brands to see which works best.

If your gun run steel cased ammo, shoot it. if your gun doesn't run steel cased ammo, find something else to shoot through it.

Was it decidedly found to be the fault of the lacquer coating, the steel case or some other factor?

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It was found to be an issue of the lacquer coating so far as any of us could determine. It was the only rifle being run with that sort of ammunition, and it was the only one that had a problem, and according to the owner, this rifle hadn't suffered such issues from other ammo.

I have owned bushmasters that will eat it and one that wouldn't. My BCM has no issue with it what so ever. I practice with Tula in the BCM, but anytime i take a course I always use PMC or other quality bras cased ammo.

All of my ARs shoot Wolf except the match rifles.One only gets fed reloaded wolf cases, 1200rds so far in 2010. Don't clean it until a case gets stuck, usually 450-600rds.

Steel cased ammo should run fine if the weapon is quality.

christcorp:

Your explanations, using logic and exposure of common emotional prejudices ("commie ammo" etc), are among the best I've ever read on the Internet about ammunition and rifle components.

Even a gunsmith evaluated the effects of lacquer-coated ammo in the Mini 30, and found that lacquer was not the cause of problems.

Instead, he determined that stuck cases in Mini 30s were:
1) due to people who first used rigid steel-cased ammo, which allowed residue to build up around the cases.
2) Those people who neglected cleaning their Minis' chambers then switched to brass ammo, which expanded into the gunk, causing some stuck cases.

Shooting lacquer coated ammo WILL NOT gum up your chamber. That is an internet myth that needs to stop being spread.

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It did mine.

ljnowell said:

It did mine.

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Assuming it was lacquer. Probably it was Polymer and not lacquer. Not too much ammo with lacquer on it that's still produced.

Even if this was true, which I still doubt, there is silver bear, mfs, and a number of other steel case ammo; <$5 a box; that is "ZINC" Plated. It literally only costs pennies a box more than the brown bear, wolf, etc... and it doesn't even have the Polymer (Lacquer) debate. Silver Bear Zinc Plated can be found for $4 a box.

Now there isn't the excuse of the lacquer/polymer. But it's still up to each individual weapon. I have a 380 pistol that doesn't like Winchester. I already mentioned my walther doesn't like Corbon. Neither are bad ammo. Neither is steel. You just have to find what your rifle likes. In other words, don't order a case of steel ammo from "Cheaper than Dirt", have it perform poorly, and then say Steel cased ammo sucks. Go to walmart and buy some Tulammo. Try it. "It's only $4.79 a box". Try some silver bear, MFS, Brown Bear, Tula, Wolf, etc... Then when you find one your rifle likes, use it. Then, you can shoot more often and enjoy shooting more with the savings.

For those who really are against the steel ammo, you can sometimes find some brass ammo for about $7 a box. (That is minimum when considering tax or s/h). You're still paying about $2-$3 a box more than the steel, but it's better than the $4-$6 per box that you will normally pay.

FACTOIDS:
At a $3 a box savings: shooting 3 boxes of ammo (60 rounds) saves you enough to buy a new extractor.
Shooting 17 boxes of ammo (340 rounds) saves you enough money to buy a complete new assembled bolt for your AR.
Shooting 50 boxes (1000 round) saves you enough to buy a complete bolt carrier assembly.

At the average savings of $6 per box; $4 steel vs $10+ brass cased ammo:
Shooting 125 boxes (2500 rounds - 12 months if shooting 200 rounds per month), will save you enough money to buy a BRAND NEW S&W M&P15OR AR15. ($750)

obama ammo aka steel, was frowned upon by many shooters in my club. when prices approached .40+ per pop--everyone reconsidered. i have seen many full auto guys embrace the steel round with no adverse issues other than a change in attitude.

Assuming it was lacquer. Probably it was Polymer and not lacquer. Not too much ammo with lacquer on it that's still produced.

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The makeup of the material on the casing is really fundamentally unimportant. What is important is whether the rifle runs with the ammo or not. It's a fairly simple thing. Just because a particular example of a rifle doesn't run your favorite brand of ammunition is hardly an affront to you.

For those who really are against the steel ammo, you can sometimes find some brass ammo for about $7 a box. (That is minimum when considering tax or s/h). You're still paying about $2-$3 a box more than the steel, but it's better than the $4-$6 per box that you will normally pay.

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The cost savings of steel cased ammo are self-evident to anyone who's willing to look. No one is disputing that. However, if you buy the ammo, shoot it, and find that the rifle doesn't run reliably with it, or isn't accurate enough with it, the cost savings really aren't doing you any good and you're better off buying another brand or reloading.

Not disagreeing that there would be a sticky buildup in the chamber. Simply saying that it is not from Lacquer. (Unless you were using some OLD steel ammo). They don't use lacquer any longer. They use polymer, and it doesn't melt either. In the older ammo, there was a lacquer sealant around the neck/primer area of the case. It could melt off. Today's steel ammo; bear, tula, wolf, etc... will not melt off and clog your chamber. Take a lighter or blow torch to a spent case. You're not going to get anything to melt off.

The stickiness/gunk you are seeing in the chamber, is because steel case ammo does not expand like brass. As such, it does not seal the chamber. Therefor, you get blowback of carbon, powder residue, grime, etc... blowing slightly behind the casing. If you clean the chamber/bore out more often, you won't have issues. At the range, after about 200 rounds, I pull the bolt and hit the chamber with a 45 caliber brush real quick. Then usually a little gun scrub and a bore snake down the barrel. Usually takes about 2 minutes. LITERALLY. During a smoke break. Then I'm good to go again. I could probably go longer, but it's a good way to take a break. Again; it's not the lacquer that's causing the stickiness in the chamber. It's blowback residue carbon, powder, grit, etc...

"Don't listen to those that say they'll NEVER shoot steel cases in their AR."

Uncle Sam issues only brass case ammo, unless things have changed a lot.

It is written, "thou shalt not useth crappy steel-cased Russian ammo in thy fine American firearms", and that's good enough for me.