Derranger recommendations?

He should've palmed it, when bar guy started following him and fired when he was struck.

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No, he shouldn't have turned his back on a potential threat in the first place, no matter how socially awkward or weird it feels.

He should have done everything in his power to verbally dissuade the miscreant from continuing to talk to him, and to go away.

Having a gun in your hand will make pretty much zero difference if you're taking a blow to the head from behind. Doesn't matter if it's a derringer or a .50 AE Desert Eagle.

quatin said:

Again, technically yes, practically no. The difference of a fraction of second makes no viable impact especially in relative to the other advantages such as having use of both arms.

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You give up the use of one hand when you palm the gun.

How did you time your .4?

He should've palmed it, when bar guy started following him and fired when he was struck.

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I see, so he should employ bad tactics (turning his back on a hostile person) then KILL an unarmed man when his bad tactics predictably fail???

That's not a good plan in my book.

David E said:

You give up the use of one hand when you palm the gun.

How did you time your .4?



I see, so he should employ bad tactics (turning his back on a hostile person) then KILL an unarmed man when his bad tactics predictably fail???

That's not a good plan in my book.

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You give up the use of a hand if you're going to use a weapon. What's your point?

You make it sound like it was his fault for getting attacked. Even if he didn't turn he was probably getting hit anyways. If you don't believe in using deadly force against an attacker like this that's up to you. I train at a sport fight gym and even in sport you are 1 hit away from being knocked down or taken down and getting kicked in the head. I may trust my training partner to not hurt me while I'm down, but not a stranger obviously trying to hurt me. What if he pulls a knife when I resist? I'm not going to let him keep beating on me and I can't turn and run without getting him off me first. I am going to hit back in an effort to get him off (something I do drill), but if I feel like I am getting overwhelmed I will use deadly force instead of falling down.

I studied the law in my state. Assault is listed as a crime where deadly force is justified. However, every case of self defense can be punished and you will never be 100% justified. My worst case here at least has the law more on my side than his. If your threshold is higher than mine and you will let yourself get beaten that's up to you. Case example Charles podany vs Florida.

*I'm going on a trip soon so I may appear unresponsive, I'm not trying to ignore you. I will continue when I can.

quatin said:

You make it sound like it was his fault for getting attacked.

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It was. You don't turn your back on a hostile threat, especially when they are drunk.

Even if he didn't turn he was probably getting hit anyways.

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Maybe, maybe not. But at least you'd see it coming and be able to do something about it.

If you don't believe in using deadly force against an attacker like this that's up to you.

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That depends on other mitigating circumstances.

What if he pulls a knife when I resist?

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Then I'll be glad I have something better than an antiquated derringer with me!

Let's hear about your derringer range drills.

David E said:

It was. You don't turn your back on a hostile threat, especially when they are drunk.



Maybe, maybe not. But at least you'd see it coming and be able to do something about it.



That depends on other mitigating circumstances.



Then I'll be glad I have something better than an antiquated derringer with me!

Let's hear about your derringer range drills.

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I guess if I ever meet you I shouldn't turn away from you or else you get provoked into attacking me.

This exact scenario. You try to calm him down, he doesn't. He attacks you.

Get a partner with 4 oz gloves. Wear a head and face mask. Your partner attacks you. Try to get away. Yes I have done this, several times at 100% power. Do this standing up and on your back on the ground. Try and get something out of your pocket or even reach around in both cases.

quatin said:

I guess if I ever meet you I shouldn't turn away from you or else you get provoked into attacking me.

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Stupid thing to say.

This guy was ALREADY drunk, ALREADY hostile and was obviously out to provoke a fight.

Simple common sense tells you not to turn your back on a guy like that.

I don't go to bars and I don't get drunk so it's highly unlikely I'll ever meet you.

BTW, since you say you witnessed that fight, what did YOU do?

And we are still waiting to hear how you timed your alleged .4

pulling a gun on someone is never a easy thing and if you have ever fired it you have a life changing experience. my hat goes off to the military and law enforcement folks who deal with this stuff.

Every time in my life that I needed it I was fortunate to have had it with me and had a little warning something was going down. praciting for it is fine and who knows if you have to get it out fast as it just has never happened to me but that does not mean it never will.

My only advise is be agressive, very agressive and do not let them get close enough to you to let them have the upper hand. It is better to leave after it and get the heck out of dodge as soon after as you can.

Also never ever tell on yourself after and never ever do anything if you can help it if you have a witness.

good luck

There is one thing I just can't shake. This "palming a derringer" deal keeps looking to me like a good way to blow off a finger if it's cocked. If it's not cocked, I fail to see the point.

White Horseradish said:

There is one thing I just can't shake. This "palming a derringer" deal keeps looking to me like a good way to blow off a finger if it's cocked. If it's not cocked, I fail to see the point.

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I was wondering the same thing. So I decided to try a couple ways to see what I've apparently been missing.

I don't own a derringer but since Quatin had also recommended a NAA in .22 magnum for the same role, I decided to use that.

"palming" it the way he described (fingers totally enclosing the gun,) it took me 1.5-2.5 seconds to cock it and pull the trigger. These times are estimates only.

Then I cocked it and held it so that my ring finger secured the butt while my trigger finger was alongside the barrel. This hold obscured the gun for the most part and might comply with the unobtrusive element that supposedly makes this such a dynamite idea, but the other guy would have to not be paying any attention at all.

From that grip, I could pull the trigger with my middle finger much quicker, but I noticed my index finger was still alongside the barrel. This raised two concerns: 1) the finger may extend past the muzzle, regardless of barrel length. Mine is the longer one and was mostly not an issue. 2). The index finger is covering the flashgap.

So I brought the index finger over the top of the gun so it poked out between the index and middle finger. That worked pretty well....for one shot. There was no way to cock the gun again holding that way. I'd say these times were right at one second. I do not believe that quatin can approach anything close to .4 holding it as he described.

I considered trying this at the range with ammo and getting some hard data like actual times and hits, but quickly realized just how asinine that pursuit would be. I won't risk my fingers (at best) to prove just how stupid an obviously stupid technique really is.

But maybe I'm doing it all wrong. Perhaps quatin can post some pics or video detailing the proper technique.

Here are some pics that show various holds, etc.

Here is the "palming technique" as I understood Quatin's description:



Here's how it looks to a casual observer:



I see no way in hell you can go from that grip to an accurate fired shot in under a second, or more likely 2, much less a .4 (firing an unintentional shot in your hand in .4 IS entirely possible, however.)

Here is my variation:



I'm holding it in place with my ring finger. The middle finger becomes the trigger finger. The index finger extends past the barrel, even tho this NAA has the longer 1 5/8th's". To avoid "Fingertip Flambe" I discovered the "Syringe" technique, bringing the index finger on top to the gun to avoid the muzzle AND the flash gap. It might work if the badguy was at contact distance and then, for only one shot. No way to cock the hammer again holding it that way.



Here's a better option, if you're inclined to do the palming technique for "fistfights gone bad"




Quick into action, SAFE to do and you have the full complement of ammo at your immediate disposal.

I was just shooting the Bond Arms Derringer in the back yard and remembered this thread. Amazing it's still going on.
Just how much can be said about the Derringer.


I've got the 38/357 and 45 ACP barrels. Shooting them both today. I haven't shot the gun in a few months. I forgot just how easy it is to shoot.
Today, mostly point shooting with the 45 barrel, 6-7 yards. Mostly easy to stay within COM shooting from the hip. Fun.

The Derringer's "lack of accuracy" comes up quite often. The Bond is quite accurate for COM shooting (at least mine is). I didn't talk any pictures today but this is typical of what the Derringer will do (using the sights).

Wow how this has gone off topic. Please go back to the original post and READ it again. Holy pissin contest.

SpaceExplorer31 said:

Wow how this has gone off topic. Please go back to the original post and READ it again. Holy pissin contest.

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The OP has been thoroughly addressed. Go back thru the posts and READ them again.

Meanwhile, quatin has postulated a technique he considers viable, taking the thread in a different but related direction. Why would an evolving thread bother you so?

So far, we seem to have established they are better than a sharpened stick.

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And how long is this aformentioned stick in your possession?

Why would an evolving thread bother you so?

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Because evolving threads usually get locked. Marked as offtopic, to be exact.

Then every single thread would be locked. In this case, it could've been locked after post #2, since that thoroughly answered the question.

The drift is still pertinent to the OP, as it involves "derringer techniques" as they relate to their suitability for defense, which is the intended use as clarified by the original poster.

And how long is this aformentioned stick in your possession?

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And by which end are you holding it?

Ok, back to some news about a 2 shot derringer.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/local/110114-elderly-woman-shot-kingwood-restaurant

The OP asked for Derringer recomendation that's it, not how to use or if its any good as a selfdefense weapon.oh well. Guess ill be like everyone else and say that my G17 is better. There Isaid it ok.

I carried a Hi-Standard Derringer 22Mag in the 70's on hot days when I couldn't conceal well. Back then there wasn't many small guns except for the Bauer .25 pistol I also had. No internet or ammo shipped by mail either.
With derringers you only pull to kill up close period. Never had to.
It is OK to start out with something cheap then work your way up. A lot of us have. If you must get a NAA .22 5 shot deringer with folding grips.

my derringers (little pistol a cigrette lighter)

Such a long list of replies, I can't read them all. Did anyone ask why the OP wanted to derange someone?

Such a long list of replies, I can't read them all. Did anyone ask why the OP wanted to derange someone?

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Probably self-defense. If you read the whole thread you'd see there are several deranged people here.

Wow. It's not every day you see a photo with a Semmerling in it.