Question - Smoky Reloads....

Are you lubing the inside of your cases with anything? If it's not something you're adding, try upping the charge on those loads and see if anything changes. Your HS-6 load is well below Hodgon's recommended starting load. I'm seeing 6.4-6.8 grains for an FMJ bullet with that OAL. W231 is listed at 4.4-4.8 grains.

OP: I'm also using CCI Magnum SP primers

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Your HS-6 load is well below Hodgon's recommended starting load. I'm seeing 6.4-6.8 grains for an FMJ bullet with that OAL. W231 is listed at 4.4-4.8 grains.

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OP is using CCI Magnum primers. I do not have experience with using magnum primers with standard loads, but I would recommend a careful working up of loads. I would caution not using near/max loads.

Bullet: Montana Gold 125g
Powder: W231 4.3
OAL: 1.095

Excellent performance. I'm getting great accuracy and average 1025 FPS. I'm getting some smoke

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If you are getting excellent performance, accuracy and some smoke with the magnum primers, why not just stick with this load? I would.

Modern powders are only "smokeless" when compared to black powder, which can create entire cloud formations. When you go to a IPSC match and see the guys shooting their ported/compensated barrels, it looks like a steam locomotive working is working its way around the course!

I might suggest trying some VV N320. The VV N300 series are all single base powders and do shoot cleaner. The only other single base I'm aware of is Solo 1000, but I've not shot that.

Do you really think plated or fmj bullets make that much smoke? They rent machine guns at my range, and I've shot 'em and watched them shot several times, and I never noticed any smoke to speak of, and that is indoors. I bet your IPSC smokestacks are shooting lead bullets.

I've used W231 in 9mm at an indoor range. I shot from a bit below starting all the way to a tenth or 2 over max. I've also used W231 in .38, using CCI #550 magnum primers. I never had any noticeable smoke, except for the one time I tried lead bullets.

Perhaps those bullets got the wrong lube on them? I'd be curious to see what happens if you cleaned a few with alcohol before loading them up.

cast bullet lube will cause smoke to occur when you touch off the round. It is normal.

God forbid if you were also using Unique.

Are the cast bullets you are using....do they have lube grooves or are they tumble-lubed (no grooves)?

D

Ahh, I was under the assumption that Montana Gold only sold jacketed bullets. If they're cast, I retract my suggestion of wiping off the lube!

GLOOB I might have to retract MY statement...just went to their website and I don't think they DO sell CB's...

my mistake!

Montana Gold sells mostly jacketed bullets.

As far as loads...I went up to 4.6 grains of W231 ... In both cases I had even MORE smoke ... is there something I should be doing different?

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I use MG bullets and my W231/HP38 loads hardly smoke even when shot in indoor ranges. It is one of cleaner burning powders.

Just as a comparison, could you test load using "standard" primer at the same powder charges of W231?

I went up to 4.6 grains of W231 and 6.2 grains of HS-6. With my Magnum primers I didn't think it wise to go higher.

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I think you are under the misconception that modern smokeless powders do not produce any smoke. As mentioned, smokeless powder smokes less compared to Black Powder which is the reason its called smokeLESS and not smokefree powder.

At the optimum pressure smokeless powder will produce less smoke while light loads generally result in poorer burn and more smoke.

With lead bullets most of the smoke will be the bullet lube burning not the powder.

Your current load using W231 is in the middle of the data and the amount of smoke you get is probably as little as you will see.

Your load with HS-6 is lighter than the 6.4gr start load found with 125gr Jacketed bullets by Sierra listed on Hodgdon's website data (6.4 to 6.8) and should probably be raised to at least 6.4 grs.

Smoke from smokeless loads are usually more noticeable when shooting at indoor ranges or when there's no wind to take the smoke away.

Picture of a modern round being fired, still has smoke:



Picture of a Black Powder pistol being shot with Black Powder or Black Powder Substitute. Lots of Smoke.

I had several of my loads in .45 Colt get smokey this winter even though they were fine in the summer. Go up in the powder charge a little bit. I found that .2 gr extra powder stopped the smoke and the sooty cases for winter shooting.

Yep, you're gonna have a little smoke.

While a mag primer isn't necessary for your W231 it won't hurt anything. Just stay a tenth or two under the max powder charge to allow for the little extra oomph.

A magnum primer is recommended to light off ball powders and HS6 is a ball powder.

Seedtick

The only other single base [besides VV] I'm aware of is Solo 1000, but I've not shot that.

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American Select only has 2% nitroglycerin, so it's almost single-based. And all Rex powders are single-based. I bought a kilo of Rex III and am really liking it. I think PB and SR-7625 are both single base but I'm not sure.

For 9mm, I currently use maximum loads of Bullseye (maybe even slight overloads) and they are not smoky even with cast bullets.

American Select only has 2% nitroglycerin, so it's almost single-based. And all Rex powders are single-based. I bought a kilo of Rex III and am really liking it. I think PB and SR-7625 are both single base but I'm not sure.

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Thanks! I did try Solo1250 which is such large flake that it doesn't meter well.

Aside from the lube on cast lead bullets creating a portion of the smoke that isn't nearly as prevalent with FMJ rounds, the problem for me was also amplified when I loaded rounds towards the low end of the recommended load range. I use 5.0-5.1 of HP-38 or Bullseye behind 230gr LRN's. Those loads smoke less than the 4.4-4.6 loads did. YMMV.