Who's Competition Shooting with a CZ 75?

I'm using a CZ75 early pre-b version for my local club IDPA shooting. And it comes along on my IPSC days as a backup to my CZ Shadow.

Around here the CZ Shadow version is very common among the Production class IPSC shooters. It doesn't outnumber all the others put together but it typically shows up as much as any other gun on the match results.

Well, I just recently got a CZ 75B, and I'd like to use it in competition sometime, but haven't done so. Just throwing this in here to flag the thread so I can follow it easier.

I almost purchased one to dip into those waters but then was made aware of a renown CZ competition gunsmith retiring due to irreversible circumstances...and he is/was the only gunsmith recommended by Mike at CZ.

Mike will do a trigger job or "action job" -- he considers them the same..some dont..either or -- but he claims that his trigger job isn't sufficient enough for competition...i'm assuming liability keeps him from taking a trigger down below 4lbs.

From what he says the CZ trigger is pretty complex?

Mike Eagleshield is pretty good. The CZ Custom Shop might be better, if you're going to do competition. Angus Hobdell is very good, but a number of others who work at his shop also do quality work.

I don't know about a renowned CZ gunsmith retiring -- but do know that Mike Eagleshield, Angus Hobdell, and Jim Miossi [maybe he's the guy?] are pretty good.

Jim and Angus don't see eye to eye on what to do when tweaking a CZ; I'd be inclined to lean toward Angus -- but all three named above are darned good.

The CZ trigger system isn't all that complex, unless you're using a decocker model or trying to remove the firing pin block on a B model. Those are complicating factors, but they can worked with.

If Miossi is still open, then he isn't out there much. I just ran a search, no net postings since 2007, and no website anymore. I had not heard that he was giving it up.

9mm CZ75B
USPSA & Steel
Production & Stock Auto Class

Changes: Competition Rear and FO front sights
polished all fire control friction areas
13 Main Spring with one coil cut off (stock = 20#)
11# recoil spring (stock = 14#)
Decreased trigger spring 'weight'
Custom aluminum grips for my small hands

Why: Very good production class legal gun, with nice light trigger pull and excellent accuracy. I prefer steel guns with hammers. For me--follow-up shots are faster and more accurate.
When shooting 'Steel' this gun can be used cocked and locked--single action and 22-24 rd mags are available.

I'm having a some 'hammer-sear' work done now, that shortens the DA pull, eliminates hammer camming and creep . (see "schmeky" thread on one classy CZ job he has done)

I have shot IDPA with a 75B-Omega.

I don't anymore.

Lots of competition shooters use them, especially overseas. The CZ75 SP-01 especially.

I wouldn't mind having one of these

or these

IPSC with a stock Shadow, using my handloads, works for me in Production.
I like the big manual safety lever - it's a great place to index the strong-hand thumb.

I'm getting set up to use a new CZ 75 Shadow. Right now I'm hoping to use it for USPSA Production, IDPA SSP, local 3-gun and Steel Challenge matches. It's not currently legal for Production or SSP, but I'm hoping that won't take too terribly long.

The gun is very nice. I've had some issues with light primer strikes using the 13lb mainspring, so I'm now trying a 15lb replacement. The only other thing I'm not happy with is not CZ's fault - it's that I can't use my favorite Hogue wraparound grips on this gun in competition.

so who prefers manual safety or a decocker, for competition and why?

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If you're planning to shoot IDPA, then manual safety is the better choice as the CZ is a great fit for the Enhanced Service Pistol division.

For USPSA, if you plan to shoot Production Division, get the decocker, because the rules for Production specify that guns with external hammers must start with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.

If you plan to run a .40 CZ in Limited Division, then get one with a manual safety as you'll be able to shoot the gun cocked and locked in that division.

I ran a CZ-85 in IDPA and USPSA Production Division for several years before making the switch to a S&W M&P Pro.

Overall, the CZs are excellent guns, and with a little bit of minor gun smithing can really shine as a competition gun.

I'd go safety for either sport. You can start cocked and locked in ESP or lower the hammer yourself for SSP or Production

I did the manaul hammer drop when shooting a CZ in Production.

Still, it's not something you'd ever want to actually screw up, as having an ND while making ready to shoot a stage will result in an automatic match disqualification.

I use a CZ-75B SA for my local club IDPA matches. I've seen a few CZs being used in my club, mostly SP-01s though

Justin:

For USPSA, if you plan to shoot Production Division, get the decocker, because the rules for Production specify that guns with external hammers must start with the hammer down on a loaded chamber.

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True statement, incorrect conclusion.
DA/SA with no decocker is perfectly legal--AND Preferred. The Shadow is a prime example for production class--no decocker. The hammer is lowered to "FULLY DOWN" manually before holstering on the "Load and make ready" command. [Ref. pic of Shadow above]

The decocker adds more fire control parts and more difficulty in tuning the trigger.

I shoot a 75B and my son shoots a CZ Custom Shop Shadow in USPSA production class and for steel.

rue statement, incorrect conclusion.
DA/SA with no decocker is perfectly legal--AND Preferred. The Shadow is a prime example for production class--no decocker.

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Yes, I'm well aware that a manual safety CZ is legal per the rules of USPSA Production Division. As I stated earlier, I ran a CZ-85 in Production for several years.

When shooting my CZ, I had more than one RO express their dislike of the fact that I had to manually drop the hammer, and I can certainly understand their concern.

While a decocker may be more mechanically complex, it doesn't change the fact that it is generally accepted that there's a higher likelihood of a negligent discharge from manually lowering the hammer than from using a decocker. I never did ND with that gun, but I was acutely aware of the inherent possibility of an ND every time I went through the Make Ready sequence.

For someone who's just looking to get into the sport, I see no advantage to advising them to get a gun that adds one safety hurdle to the process of safely shooting a stage.

That said, I would be willing to defer to an expert on the subject, say Angus Hobdell, in regards to which safety mechanism would be preferable for shooting a CZ in Production Division.

Justin said:

When shooting my CZ, I had more than one RO express their dislike of the fact that I had to manually drop the hammer, and I can certainly understand their concern.

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I've been shooting a CZ SP-01 Shadow in Production(USPSA) for almost a year now. I fully expected to have this kind of reaction from RO's as I started shooting USPSA back in '94 - what some would consider "old school" - well before there even was a Production Division. Back in the day, if you stuck your trigger finger inside the trigger guard of a loaded gun BEFORE the buzzer, you'd be packing your things in a hurry! I make it a point to tell each RO what I'm about to do when they give the Make Ready command BEFORE I even remove the gun from the holster. None so far have expressed any stress over it, many have told me "Yeah, I've encountered CZ's before - no worries", and most have been appreciative for the heads up.
That said...I would understand completely if an RO did have reservations about the whole "manually lower the hammer" affair. Even though I'm comfortable with lowering the hammer manually and have not yet had it slip out of my fingers accidentally, there's always the chance. It has a very large pucker factor. I keep thinking that after I get where I want to be in Production, I'll go back to Limited, where I won't have to do that anymore.

Yes, I'm well aware that a manual safety CZ is legal per the rules of USPSA Production Division. As I stated earlier, I ran a CZ-85 in Production for several years.

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The point that the non-decocker guns are better for the IDPA ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL division, which allows starting from "cocked and locked" remains true. There's no transition issue between first and second shots when starting in that mode. He wasn't talking about PRODUCTION.

For Production, "cocked and locked" is NOT an option. It's not allowed in the similar STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division in IDPA. I think that's why Glocks seem to be the dominant gun in that IDPA division. I would suspect Glocks are one of the more common guns in USPSA, too.

(I frequently shot an 85 Combat for years in IDPA, in both Stock Service Pistol, and Enhanced Service Pistol divisions -- hammer down in one, and cocked and locked in the other. I now also have a well-gunsmithed M&P Pro, and if I return to competition -- had been going to school for several years and that's done -- I'll probably try the M&P Pro for a while.)

Interestingly enough, the only negligent discharges I've ever seen in a match didn't happen when someone was lowering the hammer at the start of a string. And at the end of the string, it's done with an empty gun -- a process monitored by the Safety Officer. The NDs I've seen (I am an IDPA Safety Officer) were at other times.

Everyone is very conscious of what needs to be done when lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber, and it's relatively easy to do VERY SAFELY, if you use both hands.

I use a CZ 75 SA Target for IDPA. This thing simply rocks! Mine looks like this, but I was lucky enough to snag one with the Custom Shop custom grips.

The point that the non-decocker guns are better for the IDPA ENHANCED SERVICE PISTOL division, which allows starting from "cocked and locked" remains true. There's no transition issue between first and second shots when starting in that mode. He wasn't talking about PRODUCTION.

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Absolutely agree. When I did shoot my CZ in IDPA ESP division, I always shot the gun cocked and locked. When I moved over to shooting USPSA, at the time, I was surprised to find that I had to lower the hammer.

For Production, "cocked and locked" is NOT an option. It's not allowed in the similar STOCK SERVICE PISTOL division in IDPA. I think that's why Glocks seem to be the dominant gun in that IDPA division. I would suspect Glocks are one of the more common guns in USPSA, too.

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Yep. I've only recently switched over to shooting an M&P for Production Division, and when I shot IDPA I avoided SSP for exactly that reason.

USPSA production division is pretty well dominated by plastic striker-fired guns, mostly Glocks, but also XDs and now many shooters are switching over to the M&P as well.

(I frequently shot an 85 Combat for years in IDPA, in both Stock Service Pistol, and Enhanced Service Pistol divisions -- hammer down in one, and cocked and locked in the other. I now also have a well-gunsmithed M&P Pro, and if I return to competition -- had been going to school for several years and that's done -- I'll probably try the M&P Pro for a while.)

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I've been extremely pleased with my M&P Pro. I've switched to it as my main USPSA and 3 Gun pistol.

Interestingly enough, the only negligent discharges I've ever seen in a match didn't happen when someone was lowering the hammer at the start of a string. And at the end of the string, it's done with an empty gun -- a process monitored by the Safety Officer.

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Like I said, I've never experienced one when lowering the hammer, it can certainly be done safely. However, why bother doing it at all if there are other guns that allow to compete in the division without having to lower the hammer?

The NDs I've seen (I am an IDPA Safety Officer) were at other times.

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I've been certified as a USPSA RSO for a little less than a year now. The NDs I've seen have also been at other times, most notably with new shooters when executing a reload.

Everyone is very conscious of what needs to be done when lowering a hammer on a loaded chamber, and it's relatively easy to do VERY SAFELY, if you use both hands.

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Agreed. But for the new shooter who's looking to get into the game, they may not be aware of the rule requiring the hammer to be lowered, and it simply inserts another step in the process where things *could* go wrong. It also saddles them with the additional hurdle of having to overcome shooting the first shot DA.

I'd love to shoot a match or three with any of my CZ pistols, but there doesn't seem to be any within 80 miles of me, and at $3.25 a gallon gas, ain't making that round trip.

I'm kind of surprised by that. There's a fairly large and active practical shooting community in Arizona. Have you checked the Enos forums to see if there are closer matches?

Never heard of that forum.