Pictured is my Ruger New Model Blackhawk. I installed a super blackhawk hammer, belt mountain base pin and a free spin pawl. Here is my question. You can see in the picture a very visible cylinder line. It didn't happen until I did the modifications. The good news is the bolt fully retracts before the cylinder starts to turn but it comes up way before the notch. This didn't occur before the modification. I have done a little research and found that this may or may not indicated a problem. Do I have an issue other than the cylinder line? Is it more than cosmetic. Thanks.
Ruger Blackhawk - Cylinder Turn Line
- Thread starter brianr23
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RKRCPA
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It's normal.
On a Ruger SA it is part of the design and not anything to worry about as long as the cylinder locks up before the hammer reaches full cock and then unlocks for the next cocking cycle. It is possible for a good smith to adjust the action so as not to cause a turn line but it's not really worth the trouble and expense in my view. The locking bolt can be removed and polished smooth where it rides on the cylinder to make a slightly less visible line. I would not worry about it. How is the trigger? Any creep?
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Not exactly. It's part of the design of the New Model Ruger but any traditional single action should have its bolt rise into the leede, not anywhere between the notches. Most of your contemporary Colt's, USFA's and Uberti's are properly timed right out of the box and if handled correctly, will not ring the cylinder.
Go to shops and ranges that have used revolvers,or revolvers being used daily.
Any revovler that has been used much at will most likely have that ring/line on the cylinder.
It is also why shops don't let/like for customers to work the actions on brand new revolvers as every time the cylinder is moved, that bolt is rubbing on the cylinder and is that much closer to having the NEW ruined
Any revovler that has been used much at will most likely have that ring/line on the cylinder.
It is also why shops don't let/like for customers to work the actions on brand new revolvers as every time the cylinder is moved, that bolt is rubbing on the cylinder and is that much closer to having the NEW ruined
Not necessarily. It depends on how you define "properly timed." Bill Ruger deliberately designed the action to have an early bolt release so that it would slow the turning cylinder if or when the hammer was quickly thumbed backkwards. Most double-action revolvers are made the same way for the same reason, or have a long leede.
On Rugers, and occasionally other more convertional Single Actions, what causes the ring is closing the gate (which releases the bolt) or lowering the hammer and then turning the cylinder to the next notch.
If one is really bugged by the mark the Ruger action can be retimed for a later bolt release, but this won't do anything about the "close the gate and turn the cylinder" issue.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
No, it is not. Ubertis are "mass produced guns" and most new ones will not ring the cylinder if properly handled.
Untrue.
Double actions are another story. Some are properly timed and some are not. Most of what you see on a DA is the faint line from closing the cylinder and turning it to lock. most of mine have only this line. One or two have the heavy line from an early rising bolt.
Again, most new single actions are properly timed and wont' ring the cylinder if handled properly. Which is the caveat, proper handling. Which means you never lower the hammer from the half cock notch on a traditional single action.
I don't pull this stuff from my posterior orifice. I could post pictures of half a dozen or more single actions that have seen heavy use and have zero turn line.
EDIT:
Like I said, it's part of the New Model design. Even custom gunsmiths don't bother with retiming New Models to prevent the ring. It wasn't done to slow turning of the cylinder, it was done to insure positive function. However, Old Models are typically properly timed out of the box.
Which is improper handling.
Like I said, most older S&W's are properly timed and will drop the bolt into the leede. All mine are this way and have only the faint line from closing the cylinder and rotating it to lock, except one. My 629MG rises the bolt halfway between the notches, causing the broad cylinder ring.
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I once had a conversation with Bill Ruger concerning why the bolt on his new model design was timed for an early release. He told me that it was intended to act as a brake on the turning cylinder and to insure that the bolt wouldn't jump the upcoming notch. Perhaps this might be considered to be "positive function."
I still have to consider the Colt SAA and copys of the same a short list of revolver types compared to all the other types of SA guns out there now. As for the new Uberti SA guns they make a lot more than just Colt SAA copies. Their S&W DAs tend to ring as do all the differant types of cap and ball revolvers. They do have other guns in the world besides just Colt SAA types.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
You're kidding!?! I reckon I've got a limited frame of reference, I only have two dozen single actions.
Colt SAA's
Colt New Frontier
Colt Frontier Scouts
USFA SAA's (various models)
Ruger Old Model Blackhawks
Ruger Old Model Super Blackhawks
Ruger Old Model Single Sixes
Ruger New Bearcat
Ruger Old Model Bearcat
Uberti SAA replicas
Uberti Remington 1858 cartridge conversion replicas
Uberti Remington 1875 replicas
Uberti Remington 1890 replicas
Uberti Colt 1872 Open Top replicas
Uberti Colt 1860 Richards-Mason cartridge conversion replicas
Uberti Colt 1860 Richards Transition model replicas
Uberti Colt 1851 Richards-Mason cartridge conversion replicas
Uberti Colt 1860, 1851, 1849, 1861, Dragoon, Walker percussion replicas
Uberti Remington 1858 percussion replicas
Pietta replicas of same
Beretta Stampede
Hartford Armory Remington 1875 replicas
Hartford Armory Remington 1890 replicas
Freedom Arms model 83
Freedom Arms model 97
You're right, a very short list. Basically everything that is not a Ruger New Model or S&W topbreak replica.
That depends. They will all have a faint line from closing the cylinder and rotating it to lock. Most will not have a ring from an early rising bolt, which is always wider and more obvious. Some do.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Did you lower the hammer from the half cock notch?
Hopefully more then some.
In a definitive work based on Smith & Wesson's own training materials, Jerry Kuhnhausen says:
"From the full forward position, slowly move the trigger back. The cylinder stop should pull down to about the bottom of the window in the frame, but not below.
Then as the trigger continues back to the half-way point, the stop should slip by and snap into the full up position with the top of the stop body against the inside of the frame... (The S&W Revolver - A Shop Manual. Book 1, pp. 35.)"
Since the cylinder stop is supposed to be released when the trigger has only rotated through 1/2 of its total arc while moving toward full cock, the stop is obviously being released well before it reaches the cylinder's notch.
This should confirm the correctness of Jim Keenan's position.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
The bolt should rise into the leede, or just in front of it. Do I really have to post pictures of half a dozen S&W's to illustrate the difference? Like I said before, only on my later model 629MG (which by the way is the only one that's been professionally tuned) does the bolt rise between the notches. On EVERY OTHER ONE, but bolt rises into the leede or just in front of it. Therefore, they only have the faint line from closing the cylinder and rotating it to lock. Don't believe me? Grab a handful of your own guns and see which ones rise into the leede and which ones rise halfway between the notches. Now maybe the timing is sloppy on all the newer guns, I don't know.
Mr. Kauhnhausen's manual, which reflects the training given to both its own, as well as law enforcement armorers, was first copyrighted in 1986. The last, and current 4th printing dates from December, 1988. It covers none of the "newer guns".
Clearly your experience is apparently an exception to the rule.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Yes, I'm sure that seven guns of varying vintages is an anomaly.
Ring
It's true most all revolvers have the ring. I have read though, that it comes from improperly cocking the revolver. If the revolver is cocked from half cock or anywhere - you may get the ring. Cocked from rest, to full cock, will produce no ring. That being said, it matters not a whit. I've had many revolvers and they were all pretty much ringed. Does not hurt function at all. May hurt value to some degree. I'd say at least 90% of revolvers that are in use, are ringed. The culprit may not be the pistol though. It may be most are ignorant on how to cock a revolver. After reading that article, I am judicious in cocking a revolver. I know I've had a NIB revolver on my table at GS's and had some idiot pick it up and ring the cyl. before I could stop them.
It's true most all revolvers have the ring. I have read though, that it comes from improperly cocking the revolver. If the revolver is cocked from half cock or anywhere - you may get the ring. Cocked from rest, to full cock, will produce no ring. That being said, it matters not a whit. I've had many revolvers and they were all pretty much ringed. Does not hurt function at all. May hurt value to some degree. I'd say at least 90% of revolvers that are in use, are ringed. The culprit may not be the pistol though. It may be most are ignorant on how to cock a revolver. After reading that article, I am judicious in cocking a revolver. I know I've had a NIB revolver on my table at GS's and had some idiot pick it up and ring the cyl. before I could stop them.
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