Why would one choose 8 pellet 00 over 9 pellet?

Spread is not applicable in the consideration. For HD purposes you are looking at a shot of no more than the widest room of your house. Yes there are exceptions, but in reality you are talking room dimension.

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Well, no - it is not uncommon to have to shoot down hallways and stairs and such.

In my house, the longest unobstructed shot indoors would be almost fifteen yards. If I lived back in the country, where defense of outbuildings and stock and implements is not unlikely, it's pretty easy to see how distances can quickly get into the 25+ yard range.

Your engagement distance is not guaranteed to be the same as mine, and patterns should be selected to account for individual circumstance.

Well, no - it is not uncommon to have to shoot down hallways and stairs and such.

In my house, the longest unobstructed shot indoors would be almost fifteen yards. If I lived back in the country, where defense of outbuildings and stock and implements is not unlikely, it's pretty easy to see how distances can quickly get into the 25+ yard range.

Your engagement distance is not guaranteed to be the same as mine, and patterns should be selected to account for individual circumstance.

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Again, I stated that their are exceptions. You brought up a nice exception.

Can someone tell me if the recoil difference is even noticeable between the 8 and 9 pellet versions of reduced recoil Winchester Ranger?

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I can tell you that I can't tell the difference. IMO, once you are into the reduced recoil arena, it doesn't make much difference. I shoot reduced recoil at all of my training classes. With the amount of buck, slugs, and bird we go through in a 2 or 4 day period....I wouldn't enjoy it at full power loadings.

recoil

00 buck used to be 00 buck but it isn't any more if the shell has a shotcup. The manufacturer calls it 00 buck, but to fit 3 layers of 3 pellets the shot has to be .315 instead of .330. 4 layers of 2 00 buck will still fit in most 12 gauge shotcups. Each load will probably perform well, but it is sad that the manufacturers have downsized the shot size without advising the consumers.

The same thing has occured with 000 buck. I dissected one round, and the pellets were closer to .34" than they were .36".

Interestingly enough, the 8 pellets of 000 buck weighed the same as 9 pellets of 00 buck from the same manufacturer.

Really, they should have sold it as 00.34 buck.

Sebastian the Ibis said:

I always asked myself basically the same question, Why do people chose 9 pellet OO shells over 15 pellet 3 in magnum shells?

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Some people don't like to spent that much time/money on orthopedic surgery ...

I've always liked S&B 12 pellet 00 buck (2 3/4"). It keeps enough decently sized pellets in the paper at 25+ yards when I patterned it. It's got kick, but I don't find it unpleasant to shoot (I'm also 6' 200lb, so YMMV). I bought so much of it on sale that I use it as practice ammo too.

I can't remember firing anything under a 9 pellet 00 load out of any of my 12 gauges, but I can tell you it ALL kicks.

Heavier gun means lower velocity of recoil. The momentum is the same, but the kinetic energy (impact in foot/lbs) is actually lower.

S&B 12 pellet 00 buck (2 3/4") is a roll crimp with over shot wad. Fired it is the same length as a 2 3/4" shell, but my pump will hold five 2 3/4" in the magazine, but only four S&B shells because the loaded shell is slightly longer than 2 3/4" although the fired shell fits a 2 3/4" chamber.

Even shotguns are not death rays...

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I want a shotgun death ray now.

Heavier gun means lower velocity of recoil. The momentum is the same, but the kinetic energy (impact in foot/lbs) is actually lower.
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Just to clarify how the physics work.

Momentum = Velocity x Mass. If you're considering the felt recoil, then it's the Velocity of the gun x Mass of the gun. Momentum is the always the same for a given discharge (bullet weight and muzzle velocity). Thus, the bigger the gun the lower it's velocity.

Kinetic Energy = Momentum x Velocity (or Velocity squared x Mass). Thus, again, the bigger (heavier) the gun the lower the velocity and the much lower the KE.

It is velocity that your arm feels more than momentum, since your arm now has to decelerate the gun back to a zero velocity. The force your arm must exert is: F = Mass of the gun x Deceleration of the gun. Deceleration = max velocity / how fast you want to stop it moving.

This ignores the shape of the gun. Some direct the recoil square into your hand, others encourage the gun to rotate and thus dissipate some of that momentum via angular deceleration.

So I went out shooting the other day. With this thread in mind I brought along various 00 buckshot loads and a shot timer.

I set up a silhouette at aprox 10 yards, what seemed to approximate the most likely distance to encounter someone in my house (note, not a max possible distance). I sliced around cover and fired two shots. I preformed this a number of times first with 2 3/4" Winchester bulk ammo, then a 2 3/4" 9 pellet 00 buck, and lastly some Winchester 3" 15 pellet loads I'd picked up at walmart just for the occasion. I planned to use 3 different guns, my modified saiga 12, the gun I had in mind when I made my first post in this thread, a Mossberg 930 SPX, and a pump either 500 or 870. I didn't get around to shooting a pump.

After averaging out the times there was no difference between the bird shot and 2 3/4" buck loads. Both had an average of 0.22 seconds with the S12 and 0.23 with the 930, which I had never shot before. Not particularly fast (but my lack of skill is another matter).

I then ran the 3" loads. There was a noticeable difference in felt recoil. It was not horrible but if I was doing a 200 round shotgun course I'd prefer the lighter loads. I was curious to see what the timer would show. It was slower. The average for the S12 wasa split of 0.24. It was 0.02 seconds slower to fire a followup. Is that significantly slower? The difference with the mossberg was 0.05 which may be in part to me not knowing the gun as well. It might also be that it is a lighter gun than the S12

Given the discussion about shooting bowling pins I wanted to test acquiring a second smaller target. I used two 6" steel plates placed roughly 10 feet apart. The average time difference for the 15 pellet load was .04 with the S12. I didn't test the 930 as I was letting a friend shoot it at that point.

So those are the numbers. I suppose whether that equates to a significant time difference depends on how you define significant. It was suggested that 0.1 seconds was significant. Is 0.02 or 0.04? Is landing 6 more pellets per shot, 12 on the pair a good trade off for the slower followup? A third shot would leave one 3 pellets shy of the pair with the 3" load, and it would also be over a tenth slower. I personally would feel comfortable with either load. In a gun that wasn't as soft shooting as my S12 (I also found the 930 to be very tolerable) I might have a much stronger preference for the light loads.

some of the 'lower recoil' offerings are 8 pellet which promotes better control during multiple shot strings of fire; also sometimes these loads can also offer tighter and more consistent patterns...extremely important for HD when a stray pellet can cause unwanted collateral damage, unintentional injury or death to an innocent bystander

You should also consider the kind of shotgun
used.

I have shot two different o/u shotguns
of very similar construction.

The first had a noticeable but pleasant recoil
even with heavier loads.

The second punched like hell even with
very light loads.

So buy a good gun and you dont have to
worry too much about the ammo used.

Self Defense

How about using 00 ten guage? Two placed shots with any shotgun 00 buck with stop your one person bad guy problem. The math is not needed. Personally I have a 410 revolver loaded with #4 buck. Same answer. Bigger and badder is not required. Skill with any shotgun will solve your problem much more so than big and bad.