CraigC
Sixgun Nut
Agreed! This recent proliferation of "tactical" rimfires has more people buying black rifles than would normally have any interest in them. Myself included. I want one of each!
S&W M&P 15-22 or Sig 522
- Thread starter bigswing5454
- Start date
- Status
Take a look at Excel Arms X-22r if you want an alternative...I love mine.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551063
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=551063
I traded a CZ-452 Style for a NIB M&P15-22. It's had 1500 rounds put through it without a problem. Haven't had any optics on it yet, but with CCI Mini-Mags and Federal Auto Match, I was shooting 3-inch groups at 50 yards offhand without a sling. I ordered a cantilever mount for a 8.5-25x50 scope to see how good it really shoots.
The butt stock was a little loose, so I used some aluminum tape on the faux buffer tube and it tightened the stock right up. No wiggle at all, now.
As far as being like a "standard" AR, it certainly isn't, and here are some of the reasons why:
0) The upper won't go on a standard AR lower
1) The buffer tube is not a real buffer tube
2) The hole for the rear takedown spring/detent is at the bottom of the lower behind the trigger guard. This is probably because of the buffer tube being fake and the gun not needing an endplate, so there's nothing to retain the takedown pin spring.
3) The barrel/barrel nut is not the same as an AR-15.
4) The barrel cannot accept a gas-block type of front sight because it's not big enough. It's .685, and the AR profile is .750 inches.
5) You have to buy the right version of the rifle to get a threaded barrel that accepts a flash suppressor. IMHO, this is complete unneccessary (a .22 doesn't need a flash suppressor) but hey, if it's looks you're after, you have to weight that decision.
6) The handguard is not a standard AR-15 handguard, and your only option if you want one is to change the barrel nut, and then you can buy the desired AR-15 floating handguard.
7) Pistol grips with a beavertail (like the Magpul MOE grip) don't exactly match up well to the back of the lower, and you'll have a slight gap there as a result.
The bolt will lock back on when firing the last round from a magazine, and the bolt release actually performs like an AR-15 bolt release. I don't think the Colt has the same functionality, and I'm not sure about the Sig at all.
It was designed and intended to be light, and not having a heavy bolt, a recoil buffer and a lighter barrel go along way to that end. The rifle certainly costs less than buying a dedicated upper for an AR-15 lower, and when you stop and consider that the rifle certainly isn't a match-grade rifle (nor is it intended to be), it's a fine representation of the AR platform, and it seems that S&W has finally gotten a grip on their reliability issues.
As far as what ammo it "likes", I can tell you from experieince that EVERY .22 rifle - even rifles of the same model/manufacturer - has a different preferred diet. I've shot CCI MiniMags and Federal Auto Match though mine without any probolems, but I have some bulk 550, Wolf Target, a couple of types of Ely, and others that I can try.
I believe that the rate of twist on the 15-22 is 1:14, so this means that lighter bullets (30-40 grain) will likely work the best in the rifle. Anything much heavier will not stabilize as well. Another factor to consider is the speed of the bullet. S&W recommends not using subsonic bullets because they don't produce enough gas to work the action correctly.
My advice is high-velocity (1200-1300 FPS) stuff like CCI MiniMags at around 40 grains, or hyper-velocity (1400 FPS) like CCI Stingers, or even better, the CCI Velocitor. I'm not neccesarily a CCI advocate, but next to Federal, they are pretty much the most recognizable and easy-to-find brand out there, and the bullet velocities are well published, and I get really good results from them, regardless of what rifle I'm shooting. (I also have a Henry H001T and a CZ-452 Silhouette.)
My overall impression of the 15-22 is that for what it is (and what it isn't), it's certainly an adequate .22 rifle and if current interest is any inidcation, we can probably expect to see custom barrels being made for them (18 to 22-inch, and with faster twist rates) sometime in the not-too-distant future.
I personally like the rifle.
The butt stock was a little loose, so I used some aluminum tape on the faux buffer tube and it tightened the stock right up. No wiggle at all, now.
As far as being like a "standard" AR, it certainly isn't, and here are some of the reasons why:
0) The upper won't go on a standard AR lower
1) The buffer tube is not a real buffer tube
2) The hole for the rear takedown spring/detent is at the bottom of the lower behind the trigger guard. This is probably because of the buffer tube being fake and the gun not needing an endplate, so there's nothing to retain the takedown pin spring.
3) The barrel/barrel nut is not the same as an AR-15.
4) The barrel cannot accept a gas-block type of front sight because it's not big enough. It's .685, and the AR profile is .750 inches.
5) You have to buy the right version of the rifle to get a threaded barrel that accepts a flash suppressor. IMHO, this is complete unneccessary (a .22 doesn't need a flash suppressor) but hey, if it's looks you're after, you have to weight that decision.
6) The handguard is not a standard AR-15 handguard, and your only option if you want one is to change the barrel nut, and then you can buy the desired AR-15 floating handguard.
7) Pistol grips with a beavertail (like the Magpul MOE grip) don't exactly match up well to the back of the lower, and you'll have a slight gap there as a result.
The bolt will lock back on when firing the last round from a magazine, and the bolt release actually performs like an AR-15 bolt release. I don't think the Colt has the same functionality, and I'm not sure about the Sig at all.
It was designed and intended to be light, and not having a heavy bolt, a recoil buffer and a lighter barrel go along way to that end. The rifle certainly costs less than buying a dedicated upper for an AR-15 lower, and when you stop and consider that the rifle certainly isn't a match-grade rifle (nor is it intended to be), it's a fine representation of the AR platform, and it seems that S&W has finally gotten a grip on their reliability issues.
As far as what ammo it "likes", I can tell you from experieince that EVERY .22 rifle - even rifles of the same model/manufacturer - has a different preferred diet. I've shot CCI MiniMags and Federal Auto Match though mine without any probolems, but I have some bulk 550, Wolf Target, a couple of types of Ely, and others that I can try.
I believe that the rate of twist on the 15-22 is 1:14, so this means that lighter bullets (30-40 grain) will likely work the best in the rifle. Anything much heavier will not stabilize as well. Another factor to consider is the speed of the bullet. S&W recommends not using subsonic bullets because they don't produce enough gas to work the action correctly.
My advice is high-velocity (1200-1300 FPS) stuff like CCI MiniMags at around 40 grains, or hyper-velocity (1400 FPS) like CCI Stingers, or even better, the CCI Velocitor. I'm not neccesarily a CCI advocate, but next to Federal, they are pretty much the most recognizable and easy-to-find brand out there, and the bullet velocities are well published, and I get really good results from them, regardless of what rifle I'm shooting. (I also have a Henry H001T and a CZ-452 Silhouette.)
My overall impression of the 15-22 is that for what it is (and what it isn't), it's certainly an adequate .22 rifle and if current interest is any inidcation, we can probably expect to see custom barrels being made for them (18 to 22-inch, and with faster twist rates) sometime in the not-too-distant future.
I personally like the rifle.
CAS700850
Member
I'm considering one of these rifles, and leaning towards the 15-22 right now. I like that it's light weight, which will make it easier to pack around if/when I take it hiking/backpacking with me. The 522 is second for the cool looks, and the fact that it folds up smaller. The Colt is a distant third place, as I haven;t read much good about one yet, and they seem more expensive in my part of the world.
My question: I agree that a flash suppressor is kind of a wast on a .22, but it looks good. I'm interested in adding a false suppressor for barrel weight and looks. Colt/Umarex offers one, but I don't know if it has teh same threading as either the 15-22 or 522. Anyone know?
My question: I agree that a flash suppressor is kind of a wast on a .22, but it looks good. I'm interested in adding a false suppressor for barrel weight and looks. Colt/Umarex offers one, but I don't know if it has teh same threading as either the 15-22 or 522. Anyone know?
o Unforgiven o
Member
It uses standard 1/2 x 28 threads and I am sure that Colt/Umarex lists the thread specs for the mock suppressor.
jackinil
Member
I went with the 15-22. Didn't like that the SIG came with no sights plus it cost more . Plus,I have an AR in .223 and it's somewhat close in feel and function. The target is from my first time out with the 15-2 with a Centerpoint Red Dot.
briang2ad
Member
- Joined
- Sep 3, 2005
- Messages
- 683
If your ejector is bent in correctly toward the centerline (a 5 minute job if it isn't) it will run like a Honda.
Yes - it is light, but that means it will give you a little 'pop' of recoil closer to an AR than an upper would.
Function is exactly the same as the M4. The rail is cool. The sights are decent.
It's excellent.
Yes - it is light, but that means it will give you a little 'pop' of recoil closer to an AR than an upper would.
Function is exactly the same as the M4. The rail is cool. The sights are decent.
It's excellent.
Kynoch
member
My use for a tactical .22 is probably different then most here -- I actually shoot it in competitive metal target matches. I have shot a Ruger 10/22 and a Remington Nylon 66 for quite a while.
After watching what my competitors' shoot and taking turns on their firearms, it's not even close -- the M&P 15-22. The light weight is a huge advantage. Yet it's clear that the M&P can take very heavy use for an extended period of time.
The 522 looks very cool but it's needlessly bloated, I don't care for its short LOP and I don't see it being as bulletproof as an M&P over the long run.
After watching what my competitors' shoot and taking turns on their firearms, it's not even close -- the M&P 15-22. The light weight is a huge advantage. Yet it's clear that the M&P can take very heavy use for an extended period of time.
The 522 looks very cool but it's needlessly bloated, I don't care for its short LOP and I don't see it being as bulletproof as an M&P over the long run.
henschman
Member
M&P 15's have a nasty habit of spitting out the extractor. I wouldn't get one just based on how many of them I have seen go down on the Appleseed firing line because of this. One fellow instructor has had it happen 3 times on his. They supposedly upgraded it with a brand new bolt and their supposedly upgraded design, but it spit out the extractor again after he got it back. I would say he just got a lemon, if it weren't for the fact that I have seen 2 other rifles do the same thing... which accounts for all of the M&P 15/22s that I have any experience with.
I am a bigger fan of the dedicated upper, myself.
I am a bigger fan of the dedicated upper, myself.
Kynoch
member
I laid an new M&P 15 for $500.00 and a new stainless Ruger 10/22 for $250.00 together side by side at a shop today. DOUBLE! Neither price is tight but this is ridiculous. Those tactical .22's really aren't justified in terms of function...
Kynoch,they're not,but if function was all it were about we'd all be shooting Mod 60s
I'm going to get one or the other,leaning 15-22 at the moment,it's for my little girl,she's never going to make 5'8" so she'd better get used to something she can carry.
I'm going to get one or the other,leaning 15-22 at the moment,it's for my little girl,she's never going to make 5'8" so she'd better get used to something she can carry.
lloydkristmas
Member
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2007
- Messages
- 281
If $500 is the best you can get a M&P 22 for you might as well give CMMG's 22LR a look at: http://cmmginc.secure-mall.com/item/QUEBEC-.22-Evolution-Rifle-w-Low-Profile-FSB-1641
I've put about 9,000 rounds through a pair of CMMG 22LR uppers and been pretty happy with them. Mine are on a RRA lower though, can't speak as to the quality of the lower CMMG is pairing with their upper for $500.
wally
Member
Paid $300+tax for my Wife's SIG522 at a local gun show, since it helps get her out shooting with me its cheap at twice the price! She never could warm up to my 10/22, especially the magazine release.
Am I alone in thinking a .22lr that requires ammo that costs nearly as much a the cheapest 9mm ammo does is not a good deal?
My Spikes Tactical dedicated upper (get to use my "real" AR trigger) and the Wife's SIG522 function fine with the Federal bulk pack from Walmart -- Spike's web site says this is the ammo they test with before shipping! They all should do this, save on their costs, and I'd never be happy with a .22lr gun that requires premium priced .22 ammo to work.
Last edited:
- Status
