Retaliation

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At the moment I'm not getting a restraining order for a few reasons. First, the State Trooper advised us not to worry about it unless there is further contact. Then (provided the contact is through the phone and not physical) we will press harassment and stalking charges. If the contact is physical, there is already enough of a paper trail to back me up, along with Michigans Castle Doctrine.

As leadcounsel advised, he doesn't have my address, and I'd have to supply him with that. Also, the fact that I do want to distance myself from him. He's sitting in jail thinking who knows what. Maybe he thinks I'm involved, maybe he's forgotten about me entirely already. I don't want to do anything that may antagonize him further.

I'm staying vigilant, and I'll notify neighbors, friends and family to let me know if he tries to contact them about me. I doubt he will though, the people we know mutually we've cut ties with, or they are having the same problems with this guy and wouldn't tell him anything.
 
I hate to burst the bubble but depending on what those "unrelated charges" are and the magistrate or judge he may already be out on bail. Keep filing paperwork if there are further telephone or other non personal contacts. If you suspect someone is following you make a series of turns to verify they are following you and call the police. What ever you do if being followed do not go home, go to a police or fire station or somewhere public with alot of people around for witnesses. If the contact is face to face or he does find out where you live and tries to force entry you will have to do what is necessary to protect you and your family. Most of the time it doesn't come to this but it is best to be prepared. You may also look into getting an unlisted phone number.
 
USAF Vet,

I would suggest that you register your interest in the offender with VINE.



https://www.vinelink.com/vinelink/initMap.do
That will give you a heads up, if he is entering the release process, or is transferred to a lower security or community corrections setting. Beyond that, you have taken steps to increase your security. Finally, don't associate with violent drug addicts or the people that violent drug addicts associate with. I know that sounds harsh, but become a highly discriminatory judge of character and drop anyone who is fishy like a rock.
 
Heck you can even attend his hearing and trial. You'll have an idea of how it goes down and gain intelligence that way. You'll know his defenses at trial, and the states evidence, and also his sentence. Also - if you're not contacted as a witness, you and he will figure you had nothing to do with it.


I would send somebody else. That way you can follow the trial w/out him seeing you in the audience. It might be better if he didn't see you there. As mentioned earlier, you don't want to reinforce his notion that you have anything to do with his current problems.
 
+1 on taking a look at the Gift of Fear by Gavin Debecker. It's got a lot of good tips to keep an eye out for and things to keep in mind in just such a situation as yours. Best of luck and I hope the scumbag never gives you any more trouble.
 
At the moment I'm not getting a restraining order for a few reasons. First, the State Trooper advised us not to worry about it unless there is further contact. Then (provided the contact is through the phone and not physical) we will press harassment and stalking charges. If the contact is physical, there is already enough of a paper trail to back me up, along with Michigans Castle Doctrine.

It's pretty much the same in my case. The threats and limited harassment have already been documented for future reference if necessary. In addition, he has falsely accused me of doing the same things to him, but he's nuts and made up a bunch of accusations that I proved were false with hard evidence, which lets the detectives involved know that he's a liar and a loon. Since things have calmed down a bit, getting a redundant restraining order would only serve to possibly set him off again, and would do nothing to protect me physically anyway. I definitely agree with the decision you've made in this regard.
 
This sucks, so what else can I do to ensure I never have another problem with this guy?
Nothing.

What you CAN do is be prepared for a confrontation with him (or any surrogates) and do everything you reasonably can to ensure that in any deadly force encounter that YOU prevail and not him.

Get a restraining order. It isn't worth the paper it's printed on in terms of "protection". What it IS is a pre-printed legal justification for why you shot him and continued to shoot him until the threat was neutralized.

I had the same sort of issue in college with the wannabe "hitman" buddy of the drug dealer who lived across the hall in the dorm. The two of them (along with most of a fraternity pledge class) got expelled for drug trafficking, mob action, etc. He threatened to kill a group of us because he [mistakenly] thought we'd gone to the school and gotten them expelled. We went to the local police who couldn't have cared less. We went to the Sheriff who also claimed he couldn't do anything, but strongly stated our right to self-defense. We armed ourselves and made it clear that we wouldn't hesitate to defend ourselves with deadly force. The moron in question quietly slunk back to Belleville, IL from whence he came.

That incident was the final nail in the coffin of any foolish ideas I might ever have had that the police would "protect" me. Protect yourself or don't get protected AT ALL.
 
I agree with leadcounsel. A restraining order will further involve you, and probably make him think you are still involved with the ongoing court actions.

And if you think a restraining order will be effective, google Castle Rock v Gonzales.
 
While a restraining order does create a paper trail, there is already one in place that does not involve giving the guy my address. I've done my homework on this guy, gathering as much info about him as I can find through public record. Basically, he is a low level part time dealer of prescribed vicoden who bounces around minimum wage jobs, avoids child support payments, and is a general nuisance to society. So far, he has no major felony convictions, which tells me he is too scared to act or he just hasn't been caught yet. But for a small time thug and a big mouthed braggart, I doubt the latter. I'm still waiting to find out what his current charges are that have him sitting in jail. I should have that this week.

Restraining orders are for those who still mistakenly believe the police will show up just in time to save the day.
 
Restraining orders are for those who still mistakenly believe the police will show up just in time to save the day.
No, restraining orders are for those who want to survive the gun battle AND the legal battle. If he violates the restraining order, there's NO doubt that there was malice on his part AND that you were in reasonable fear of your life when you shot him.

Your choice.
 
Restraining orders are for those who still mistakenly believe the police will show up just in time to save the day.

Respectfully disagree. Granted, a restraining order won't actually restrain anyone. It is however useful from a legal perspective if you believe some jerk is likely to or will immenently put you into a position of having to use lethal force against them. Remember, the soccer moms that will be on your jury who hate guns might at least be swayed a bit to your side by the fact that you tried to deal with the problem through the legal system beforehand. Makes it a little harder for the prosecution to paint you as a trigger happy lunatic.

That said, if the moron doesn't know where you live, I'd say holding off on the RO makes perfect sense to me. However, if one day he sows up on your property threatening you, that may change.
 
That said, if the moron doesn't know where you live, I'd say holding off on the RO makes perfect sense to me. However, if one day he sows up on your property threatening you, that may change.
It's not at all hard to find out where people live if you know their name.

At one point, I had neo-Nazis in usenet posting not just my address, but maps to my house. Some of them were wrong, but some of them were right.

The risk from him having your address is FAR outweighed by the legal cover the restraining order gives you.
 
I'd suggest getting a copy of his police file so you have a photo and giving copies to family and friends in case he shows up asking about you.

I think this is a very good idea. In a lot of states, if he is property of the Department of Corrections, you can get his photo right off the DOC website. Anybody in custody has their photo right there for the searching.
 
Basically, he is a low level part time dealer of prescribed vicoden who bounces around minimum wage jobs, avoids child support payments, and is a general nuisance to society. So far, he has no major felony convictions, which tells me he is too scared to act or he just hasn't been caught yet.

how old is this guy, and does he have violent convictions? either way, unlikely $300 would be worth much in the way of actual action, unless he is truly psychotic and majorly violence prone. The problems i see are if he only called you by phone, possible neither of you really know who you are dealing with? have you ever met in person? He threatened to have you fired? not with violence? this is a clown and a half, but also sneaky. Possibly intentionally only making threats he thinks are "legal" over the phone/ but more likely just a total lame. I think shadow 7d and posts along that line are the way to go
 
No, restraining orders are for those who want to survive the gun battle AND the legal battle. If he violates the restraining order, there's NO doubt that there was malice on his part AND that you were in reasonable fear of your life when you shot him.

Michigan has Castle Doctrine, and when the State Trooper who takes a complaint reminds someone of that... Kinda says a lot. If someone who has threatened not only my livlihood by my life and the lives of my family members enters my home forcefully and gets killed, with a complaint already filed against him for those threats, there won't be much of a legal battle. A retraining order, in this case, will fuel the fire, and offer him opportunity where he already has motive.

Respectfully disagree. Granted, a restraining order won't actually restrain anyone. It is however useful from a legal perspective if you believe some jerk is likely to or will immenently put you into a position of having to use lethal force against them.

By giving this guy my address, as I would have to do in a RO, I may just as likely be forcing myself into a situation where I might have to use lethal force. He doesn't know where I live, and since I honestly know very little about him, or what he is capable of, I'm not going to give him any help. For now, I'm letting the situation ride. If there is any further contact, by advice of the Michigan state troopers, a RO shouldn't be necessary, pressing charges for harassment and telephone stalking should suffice.

If he does show up one day threatening me, he will be doing so staring down the barrel of a gun, face in the dirt waiting for the cops to haul him away. At that point, a restraining order will go into effect, as he would already know where I am. I'm not overly concerned about brandishing a weapon against a known criminal with a complaint filed against him, be me, on my own property.

I think this is a very good idea. In a lot of states, if he is property of the Department of Corrections, you can get his photo right off the DOC website. Anybody in custody has their photo right there for the searching.

At the moment, he is a guest of the County, not the state. County Jail doesn't post a mug shot on their website, but all other pertinenet info regarding his stay is available. When and if I do find his photo somewhere, even if its a facebook page, I'll pass it around.

how old is this guy, and does he have violent convictions? either way, unlikely $300 would be worth much in the way of actual action, unless he is truly psychotic and majorly violence prone. The problems i see are if he only called you by phone, possible neither of you really know who you are dealing with? have you ever met in person? He threatened to have you fired? not with violence? this is a clown and a half, but also sneaky. Possibly intentionally only making threats he thinks are "legal" over the phone/ but more likely just a total lame. I think shadow 7d and posts along that line are the way to go

He is 37 years old, almost 38. None of his convictions thus far have been for violent crime, which is why he still has his right to bear arms, one of the main reasons I'm not being overly antagonistic towards him. I am fairly certain he is mostly talk, and if he really put his mind to it, he would realize $300 isn't worth his life, or spending the rest of it in prison. He and I have never met face to face. My wife has met him in passing. I really don't know who I'm dealing with, other than what I've managed to find in public record. He seems to be a lot of talk, but I'm not going to stake my life on it.

He asked if I liked my job, insinuating that he had influence over it. When I called him out on that, he immediately backpedaled and threatened my life and family. He is a clown, but he isn't at all sneaky. He has quite clearly broken the law with his death threats, and his threats to send others to my home in his stead.


I just checked, as of 12:15 pm EST today (about 2 hours ago) he is still incarcerated in the county jail. He's been in there almost a week now, his arraignment has come and gone, I'm not sure if bail has been set, but I doubt he could pay it, after all. His current charges are still not known to me, I'm working on getting them, but the charges are coming from the Michigan State Police.
 
Search his name in the county and state court, depends on the system and the way the site works, but you might/should be able to pull up any charges, failing that, go to the court clerk and see if they could help, or just go the state troopers, and ask as an interested party (he threatened you) to be put on the VINE list.
 
I just registered for VINE to be notified of any change to his case. When I get home from work, I'll call the jail and get some more info about his case. They have funky hours when it comes to inmate information.
 
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