Newbie's First Shotgun - Norinco vs. H&R Pardner vs Other?

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HGM22

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Got some questions for you shotgun folks. I have seen the (Norinco?) "Ultra 87" 12 gauge shotgun for what appears to be a very good deal at $150. I've also heard the H&R Pardner Pump is a good shotgun available for cheap. Now, are these the same gun, or just very similar? If they aren't the same, what makes them different/which is better? How do other options compare i.e. Mossberg Maverick 88 and others (kind of leary of used guns, especially since I don't know shotguns well, but if that's the way to go then so be it)?

I'd like a shotgun because:
1. They seem inexpensive and money is tight.
2. I have rifles and pistols and I'd like to fill the "triad" ;-)
3. They seem like fun and versatile tools/weapons - I can shoot slugs, shot, and buck.
4. Likely would see duty as a home defense gun.
5. Don't hunt, but if that changes it might see duty as a hunting shotgun.
6. Mostly though I just want a good, cheap gun I don't have to baby that's fun to put through its paces at the range.

Also, does anyone know why I can't shoot shotguns at the indoor pistol range? I understand slugs, maybe even buckshot, but what is the harm in firing a few rounds of birdshot? Too loud? On the same note, is a shotgun out of place on the rifle range (outdoor)? This would be the only other place for me to shoot it besides maybe trying skeet/trap. I know these questions have probably been asked a million times, but I do appreciate your input. Thanks.
 
I have nothing against H & R and Norinco but my vote is the Mossberg 500 - tried and tested platform. You can probably find one used for under $300. Not much can go wrong on a pump shotgun so I wouldn't hesitate to buy used. A new Maverick is not bad either.

Not sure about the range rules in your area but generally you should be OK on the rifle range.
 
The indoor range lets folks shoot shotguns. Slugs and shot. They just put you in the rifle area. I would save up for a Remington 870. They have been around forever and very reliable.
 
Save up and get yourself an 870. They are well made shotguns and if something actually does break, parts are readily available for them. The used market is loaded with plenty of the express models, and there are plenty of decent deals out there.
 
Same can be said for the Mossberg 500 as well. The parts list for them is practically endless.

In the end it's all in what you want though, the 870 is the niger gun, while the Mossberg is more of a "meat and potatos" model, but can still be pretty sharp looking with the right configuration.

The H&R is a break-open design. I'd only go for it if that's what you're into as it's just a single-shot (please do not use a single-shot for dangerous game). It's actually a poor value when you compare it to the Maverick, the import version of the Mossberg 500. I can get a Maverick (Mexican parts, US finishing) for about $180 at walmart....$230 for the Mossberg 500 (US made).
 
If you have a range near you that rents long guns, try whatever shotguns they have available and decide based on your own experience. Even better, if you have friends or family members who own shotguns, see if they will let you try their guns (bring your own ammo tho, best start with light birdshot loads).

Far as I know the Norinco/Interstate Arms/Hawks and the Pardner Pumps come from the same factory, though the receiver profiles are a little different. I have several of each as well as a number of 870s and at this point have no real preference either way. I'll buy every good used pumpgun I can find for $150 or less and lately that's been more Hawk 981/982s and Pardner Pumps than 870s.

fwiw,

lpl
 
I would vote for saving for an 870 or a 500.

The 500 is available at walmart with a 28" bbl (I think) and 3 chokes for $217. A little long for home defense but I'm not a big advocate of the SWAT team tactics if you have a home invasion anyway. Back you and your's into a corner, call 911, point all 28 inches of 12 gauge at the door and wait.

And go try skeet and trap and sporting clays if there's a course near you. That's where the fun's at.
 
Also, does anyone know why I can't shoot shotguns at the indoor pistol range?

At the indoor range that I shoot at it is because it tears up the cardboard target hangers way too fast.

And I would say save up for an 870. The 870 express runs anywhere from $250 to about $310 depending on where you are, and sometimes Remington has some mail-in rebates with a receipt.
 
Well let me say thanks for all the replies. I also want to say I meant the H&R Pardner Pump, NOT the single shot model.

I've heard that the 870 Express is cheaply/poorly made. Is this true? I also read in another thread that the Pardner Pump might even have better steel.

I also want to say I don't have a lot of money right now. The difference between $150-170 and $220-300 is substantial. This is my biggest reason for leaning towards one of the "Chinese guns". Also, the Ultra 87 comes standard just the way I want it: 18.5'' bbl, sling swivels, and rifle sights. All I'd want to add is a slip-on shell holder and a white light on the slide (well probably - we'll see after I shoot it some).

The thing the Ultra 87 or Pardner Pump does NOT have is the bbl interchangeability, though at this point its not a huge concern as I don't hunt.

I've basically got no friends or family interested in guns, much less shotguns. They find them fun and come shooting with me sometimes, but none of them own guns or are very knowledgeable about them. There is a skeet/trap place nearby that I think is private, but I think they occasionally have some open clinics, so that's an idea.

Basically what I am thinking at this point is get the Ultra 87 or Pardner Pump for $170ish and shoot it like crazy. Later on, when I can afford more or I start hunting, I will probably end up getting a Mossy 500/590 or Rem870, or maybe even the KSG. But for now I think the Pardner Pump or Ultra 87 is looking like a great way to get started. However, my mind is NOT made up and I am open to opinions.
 
Despite the "browning-like hump", the H&R is a Chinese copy of the 870. Its the off season and the perfect time to buy a slightly experienced 870.
 
I've heard that the 870 Express is cheaply/poorly made. Is this true?

Absolutely without a grain of merit. IMHO, the 870 is one of the best gun values on the planet. You will spend allot more before you find a shotgun that can do anything better other than look pretty.

I have yet to meet anyone who regrets purchasing an 870.

I am also no fan of Remington, but I have to give them a ton of credit for the 870.
 
Basically what I am thinking at this point is get the Ultra 87 or Pardner Pump for $170ish and shoot it like crazy. Later on, when I can afford more or I start hunting, I will probably end up getting a Mossy 500/590 or Rem870, or maybe even the KSG.


Sounds like a good plan to me. If you really want to economize, the Pardner single shot is a good gun and you can get a second shot off faster than many people realize. http://shootery.blogspot.com/2010/05/speedy-reloading-of-single-shot-shotgun.html

The plan then becomes, you shoot the single while saving the shekels for a high quality repeater.
 
The difference between $150-170 and $220-300 is substantial.

If that is the case, then, IMO, you need to rethink your priorities and focus on those and not a cheap gun - besides, how are you going to afford ammo and range time?
 
The H&R is Chinese anyway, but an all around great shotgun, my money would go to a maverick 88 because you can buy barrels to suit all your needs; an 18 incher for HD, 28'' for birds and clays, and a deer barrel if you were so inclined.
 
"I've heard that the 870 Express is cheaply/poorly made. Is this true?"

I've had mine since 1992(picked up NIB for 200.00 :cool:), never had a problem with it......never a single hiccup.....ever.;) Just had to pony up 90 bucks for the shot barrel.
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I'm not you, so I can't make the decision for you, but I think you really should look into the 870s and 500s. I have the 870 and I love it. I've heard great things about the Mossberg 500.

Really, the best advice I can give you to call anyone you know with a shotgun and see if you can try it. Some Trap and Skeet clubs have loaner shotguns that you can try. Its really hard to make the decision until you actually pull the trigger, and see what you like or don't like.

Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
 
I keep preaching Pawn Shops. Well traveled but serviceable brand name American made shotguns can often be found a bargain prices. I have seen used 870s, 500s,and 37's in a shop rack in the 100-150 range.
 
Like the carolinian said, used US made repeaters are out there, oft more cheaply than the new offshore clones.

Last 870 bought here was a 1955 WM, out the door for $178. Passed on a couple since for less than $200 or so.

Net scuttlebutt about Express failures are widely exaggerrated,IMO.
 
Absolutely without a grain of merit. IMHO, the 870 is one of the best gun values on the planet. You will spend allot more before you find a shotgun that can do anything better other than look pretty.

I have yet to meet anyone who regrets purchasing an 870.

Well, he was asking about the 870 Express.

I had one stored in my gun locker that developed some surface rust. It'd never been outside the house, really. Storing it for my brother. Not a single other gun in the locker had an issue. The finish on these leaves a bit to be desired.

And I've personally seen an 870 Express choke on Winchester Universal hulls. Rough chamber.

I'd buy a used 870 Wingmaster or Police before I got a new Express. Just my opinion.
 
Hmmm you guys are making this difficult. I'm getting the sense that I should take a look at the used rack, classifieds, gunbroker, etc. Maybe a pawn shop if I can find one.
 
If you buy a Remington, buy something used and older. If buying new, I'd go H&R. I've compared a new 870 and H&R and the H&R came out on top in all aspects. Good luck!
 
Also, does anyone know why I can't shoot shotguns at the indoor pistol range? I understand slugs, maybe even buckshot, but what is the harm in firing a few rounds of birdshot? Too loud?

My local indoor range will allow slugs. Their reasons are buckshot is out because it can tear up the range equipment, birdshot is out because it can richochet back at people and can tear up the equipment.
 
Mossberg 500

My newbie shotgun was a Mossberg 500 that my parents bought for me in 1964 when I was 14. I still have it and still use it. A Remington 870 is a little more money and another good choice.
 
I'm getting the sense that I should take a look at the used rack

Bingo. Whether it's a shotgun, rifle, or pistol,I'd go with a high quality used gun over a lower quality new gun at the same price every time!
 
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