New AR Owner questions

1) H&K steel mags typically work well....but they run about 3 times the price of a pmag last time I checked. And I have had success with GI mags, with a magpul follower, but all of the mags that I use are now pmags (20 and 30 rounders, gotta love them assault clips )

2) I was told that the gun would run better wet so that is how I have kept mine and it has yet to malfunction. Others will chime in on exactly what to use and how to apply it

3).....save your paycheck for ammo and accessories

1: Brownells and/or D&H mags have a great rep for metal mags. There are others too, but these come to mind first.

2: Lubrication discussion is a slippery slope . It is easy to throw around names like BreakFree or Slip, but the key is to use something and use something different if it doesn't work for you.

3: Shoot it a bunch and try to hit what you are shooting at. BRD is a disease that is best not denied. Enjoy!

1. As far as mags go i have a pretty equal mix of HK and PMags... look for stuff with non tilt followers as a general rule.

2. I run mine with a light coat of CLP usually break free or Gunzilla. Seems to work well.

3. Learn to shoot with the irons before you throw an optic on it. The AR is a great system to practice with, and will serve you well if you take care of it. They're often called the grown man's barbie and they are.

SHOOT IT! You'll love it.

1. GI mags work great, especially with the magpul follower. Pmags are, however, worth the money.

2. Keep the bolt wet, cleaning is optional. Any kind of light oil works great.

3. Don't make it a contest to see how much you can make the gun weigh, and be sure to share the fun with others.

1. Pmags are my favorite but Im sure many of the others out there work just as well

2. Light lube with light oil on the bolt, some form of CLP is optimal. A few drops go a LONG way. What has worked for me in the past is to wet your finger LIGHTLY with oil and rub the internals on the BCG and bolt. Then rub the outside of the BCG a little to work the last little bit off of your fingers keeping oil out of the carrier key and the surrounding area. Then put the BCG back in the weapon and pull the charging handle a few times to disperse the little bit of oil on the outside of the BCG. 68wj said it right, Im sure I will get blasted for MY method but it works for ME.

3. If you run across a 5 or 10 round magazine for a good deal pick up one or two, they make sighting in on a bench alot easier than a 20 or 30 round one.

Congrats on your AR15 they are a great firearm!

1: I believe bushmaster uses Magpul followers so that is a likely a good mag. But really P-mags really are great!

2: Use generous lubrication of the bolt lugs, bolt exterior, gas rings, cam pin, bolt carrier rails and exterior of the bolt carrier in general. I also clean most of the remainder of the components with a CLP oil that will both clean and provide an appropriate light coat of oil where it should be. Also one drop worked into your ejector is a good idea. FWIW I like breakfree CLP.

When I received a rifle back from bushmaster CS some time ago, they just sprayed the heck out of the bolt and bolt carrier group for testing. So that is what they think of lubing. Dripping wet . Desert environments may require a different lubrication method.

3: Less is more, keep it light and handy.

The above info is good info.

Learn how to remove the bolt from the carrier and clean the bolt pretty often. Carbon/powder buildup on the bolt causes more failures than anything else in an AR IMHO.

Also, pick up a spare bolt retention pin.

Dripping wet works OK for the range - not so much for a truck gun, in which case all that lube will hold dust and sand. The key point to remember is that anywhere metal rides on metal, you neded to have a film of lube in between. For the AR, this means that the 4 rails machined onto the bolt carrier (look at an older bolt - they'll be the shiny parts) need lube, as well as the outer edges of the gas rings and bearing surfaces of the bolt itself.

Also forgot to mention, what about the Brass vs Steel cased ammo?

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Almost everyone says steel cased won't hurt a thing. I just hate it soley on principal.

merlinfire said:

Also forgot to mention, what about the Brass vs Steel cased ammo?

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The biggest rant on the internet, some will say yes and some will say no. To cut it all short, fact of the matter is you will hurt absolutely nothing at all by using it, but some rifles (increasingly rare these days) sometimes struggle to feed with it. Just make sure you clean and lube as it tends to run a little dirty.

So try some for yourself is my advice, and I would say for best performance try either the "Bear" brand (Brown, silver or gold, it matters not) or the new Wolf "WPA" - but stay away from the weak Tula or Tulammo branded stuff, which will work but is very inconsistent, weak and has more chance of short stroking.

I use hi-temp bearing grease on the rails of my Bushy. I use brass cased ammo. It shoots great!

With A2 sights, rotate the elevation wheel one full turn until it's back to 300/800. Then aim directly at a target 800 meters away, fire, then wonder where in the heck your bullet went because most carbines won't shoot good past 300 yrds. Sorry!

1. GI mags or PMAGS are fine...HK mags are over rated and not worth it...

2. Lube...only a little drop or two on the bolt cam pin...every thing else for the most part is dry...don't go squirting a gallon of oil into the innards of the gun...it doesn't need it..


Lots of oil will make mine look much worse....my M4 above is DRY (except for two drops of oil on the cam pin) and ran fine with no issues...

MtnCreek said:

With A2 sights, rotate the elevation wheel one full turn until it's back to 300/800. Then aim directly at a target 800 meters away, fire, then wonder where in the heck your bullet went because most carbines won't shoot good past 300 yrds. Sorry!

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You of course will stand out at 500 yds so we can prove that right?

The Marines QUALIFY on M4s at 500yds....the rifle can shoot even farther with the RCO. I've been able to put rounds on a popup target at 700m....just saying.....

Wow, we'd better name that rifle Filthy 15, Jeremy!

merlinfire said:

1. Mags. I hear a lot about mags and how important good mags are to this platform. I prefer a metal magazine, but I've heard that GI mags can sometimes cause issues. If I want magazine reliability, are PMags my only real option, or are there good aluminum mags that avoid this problem?

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USGI Mags in good condition work just fine, especially with the new 3rd generation tan follower or a Magpul anti-tilt follower. The problem is that it isn't always obvious if a USGI mag is in good condition. If the feed lips are bent out 0.03", you probably won't notice it looking at the mag; but you'll notice it when it spits two rounds into the feed and stops your rifle. PMAGs are nice because when they are no longer in spec, there will be a big crack where they have exceeded their limits. So you can remove the problem mag before it becomes a problem. It is also easier to remove the floorplate and clean debris and sand out of a PMAG compared to a USGI mag.

2. Lubrication. I've heard lots about this being the "key" to reliable operation. To what degree is this true, and what lubricating agents should I use? Also, what is the proper way to lubricate, in other words where do i need to keep it lubed the most religiously?

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Read these articles:
Keep It Running by Pat Rogers. Pat Rogers is former USMC Force Recon, NYPD, and various government agencies. In addition to training the guys who train our elite units, he also is the owner of Filthy 14 - an AR with 43,000 rounds on it and has been cleaned twice I think. So he has some good input on how to keep an AR running.

M4 Carbine Reliability Issues: Why They Occur and Why They Are Our Fault by Michael Pannone. Michael Pannone is currently a Senior instructor for both Team VTAC (Viking Tactics) and Mid-Atlantic Training Resources (MATR), and a certified Colt Armorer. He is also a former operational member of U.S. Marine Force Reconnaissance, U.S. Army Special Forces, and specially selected elements of the Joint Special Operations Command. Again, someone who knows M4s and has good advice on how to keep them going.

4. Is steel cased ammo ok?

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You'll have to try it in your AR and see. You should also try to get the rifle fairly hot as some rifles will run steel case ammo OK at the range; but choke on it when they get warm.

What is the generally accepted maximum effective range for the .223/5.56 round when fired from an 16" ar barrel, before it starts destabilizing?

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Depends on what ammo you are using, environmental conditions, etc. Due to different ballistic coefficients, M193 55gr will go transsonic about 275yds sooner than Hornady 75gr match out of a 16" barrel - plus the 55gr M193 won't be anywhere near as accurate to begin with so hitting a target smaller than 20" past 500yds with M193 will involve a certain measure of luck in addition to requiring good skill.

From personal experience, the longest I've ever shot was 600yds with a Bushmaster 1:9 16" HBAR using Santa Barbara SS109. It did OK. Nothing spectacular; but you wouldn't want to stand there and laugh at me at that range.

You of course will stand out at 500 yds so we can prove that right?

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Not a chance!

See below....
1. Mags. I hear a lot about mags and how important good mags are to this platform. I prefer a metal magazine, but I've heard that GI mags can sometimes cause issues. If I want magazine reliability, are PMags my only real option, or are there good aluminum mags that avoid this problem?

Colt mags with a magpul follower work like brand new ones. Magpull and other modern ones are also good. Just pick up a few of each and see what you like better. Have some 20 rounders for the bench and a couple of low count if you can hunt with the carbine.

2. Lubrication. I've heard lots about this being the "key" to reliable operation. To what degree is this true, and what lubricating agents should I use? Also, what is the proper way to lubricate, in other words where do i need to keep it lubed the most religiously?

In dry dusty areas such Afghanistan the less lubrication the better or it will attract teh dust. In general ARs like to run clean and wet but a slight film of oil, sometimes just what is left from wiping the gun off is better than dripping oil.
Specially in those areas where the hot gasses come through the impigement system. have them real clean and barely any oil, wipe any excess off.
People come with new ideas like exo finishing and materials that can run dry. An AR can run dry for a long time but better clean it specially if you life depends on its function. A light machine oil is the best.

3. Anything else you can mention as wisdom for the newbie AR owner would be helpful.
Tune the carbine for your purpose but do not go into any radical upgrades right away. Learn from others, keep learning, trying options and then decide one thing at the time.
Take it slow. One shot well placed is better than 100 misses. The accuracy of the AR carbine is the best asset. Try some of the new rounds in 70gr and 75gr like barnes TSX and hornady tap. The ballistics improvement is substantial at extended range if you have the proper rate of twist in your barrel.

4. Is steel cased ammo ok?
Preferable not. The AR-15 was designed for the .223rem round ( a brass original) and not the other way around. Occasionally you can use for plikin and see folks all the time with steel cases stuck in their chambers due to the cheap Russian puffins. The steel is harder on the internals. Steel is cheaper not better. I don't really see the benefit. You can get 1K rounds of GI/Nato ammo in a value pack fur just below $300, like federal M183 that burns very clean vs russian for $230 that is really dirty. I some steel case for plinkin but normally do not use it with the standard inpigment system, only with some piston AR's, saiga 223 and the keltec that is also piston driven.

Like somebody mentioned the marines qualify at 500yards. I took the advanced marksmanship training in the service and one thing is taking a shot at 500 and the other is actually being
effective at that range. For that we need a specialty upper with the newest bullets I am telling you about up to 77gr designated Mk262. The reason is that these can start slower but end up faster due to the fact that the fly longer, retain more energy and buck the wind better for a .223.
Or even better, get out that M14 and show them what is good but this is a different thread.

Shoot often and stay safe.

In my experience:

1. Mags. I hear a lot about mags and how important good mags are to this platform. I prefer a metal magazine, but I've heard that GI mags can sometimes cause issues. If I want magazine reliability, are PMags my only real option, or are there good aluminum mags that avoid this problem?

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In my opinion, PMags are the best option, but good aluminum mags can be reliable if you inspect them religiously and throw them out when they start to get worn (or get dropped on the feed lips). If you drop a PMag on the feed lips and break off a lip, you'll know it, but aluminum mags tend to fail very quietly (i.e. the feed lips can be bent out of spec without breaking). I've had good luck with a Brownell's magazine, as well as some no-name USGI magazines with Magpul followers, but I prefer PMags.

2. Lubrication. I've heard lots about this being the "key" to reliable operation. To what degree is this true, and what lubricating agents should I use? Also, what is the proper way to lubricate, in other words where do i need to keep it lubed the most religiously?

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I keep the bolt body (everything except the bolt face), the bolt carrier, the channel where the bolt carrier moves, and the charging handle shaft/slot looking wet with oil, but not dripping. Just keep oil out of the chamber and magazines. I personally use regular Mobil 1 full synthetic 5W-30 (yes, motor oil), applied with cleaning patches or Q-tips, but I would not use a non-synthetic oil or any oil marked "high mileage". A lot of people swear by Militec-1 or Slip2000, which have similar properties to Mobil 1. A lot of people prefer CLP, but I absolutely cannot stand the smell, and in my experience it tends to dry out faster than pure lubricants do.

3. Anything else you can mention as wisdom for the newbie AR owner would be helpful.

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http://www.amazon.com/Green-Eyes-Black-Rifles-Warriors/dp/0615166547/ref=pd_cp_d_1

http://www.amazon.com/Magpul-Art-Tactical-Carbine-DVD/dp/B001JEQPKK

4. Is steel cased ammo ok?

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Definitely yes, if your rifle has a 5.56mm rather than .223 chamber, and chrome lining is a plus but probably not absolutely necessary. It shouldn't hurt anything to try it; if your rifle doesn't like it, try something else, but mine (plain-Jane Rock River Arms midlength with a 5.56mm chamber, chrome lined) runs fine on Wolf and Tula steel-case .223.

I forgot, read the history of the M16/AR-15 and stoner struggles at first.
There are a few books in amazon and for the kindle. The AR-15 gun digest, the Black magic and another I have in the kindle I forgot the name.
Good reads.
Cheers,
E.

merlinfire said:

1. Mags. I hear a lot about mags and how important good mags are to this platform. I prefer a metal magazine, but I've heard that GI mags can sometimes cause issues. If I want magazine reliability, are PMags my only real option, or are there good aluminum mags that avoid this problem?

PMAGS are where it's at.

2. Lubrication. I've heard lots about this being the "key" to reliable operation. To what degree is this true, and what lubricating agents should I use? Also, what is the proper way to lubricate, in other words where do i need to keep it lubed the most religiously?

Allready covered in the links above. I use Mobile1 mixed with ATF mixed with STP. Thick oil.

3. Anything else you can mention as wisdom for the newbie AR owner would be helpful.

Small cheap stuff that makes a HUGE difference in the enjoyment of an Ar: Magpul BAD lever for reload speed and malf speed, Magpul Moe grip and ACS stock for comfort, Stag Ambi safety for easy ambi use.

Also pick up Magpuls AOTTC II DVD, skip the first one. The second one covers everything except left handed reloads which you can find on youtube anyway. Or get the first one. It's good stuff, but the second series is the holy grail of carbine manipulation.

4. Is steel cased ammo ok?

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For plinking sure, for defense no. But don't judge your rifles reliability on Wolf ammo. I try to buy brass only ammo. Just on principle, I like all my fingers where they are.

Is steel cased ammo ok?

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Yeah, its great.

Nobody ever has any trouble with it.