Brewer Vetoes Campus Carry

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shotgunjoel

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I am NOT quite sure why, haven't read the veto statement yet, but I have been told some big East Coast teachers outfits went all out foaming at the mouth against us on this one. Try again next year, and go for the gusto.
 
I can CCW at the age of 18 in Delaware, can walk on our main street CCW, if your not a student you can CCW on campus....but because I'm a student I can't CCW at UD on campus.

And once again, the people who don't abide by the law and do bring a gun to campus are the ones I want to be prepared against.

I fully support and agree most college students shouldn't carry. I think most are idiots. But if your not (or even are), and youve been approved by the state to carry. There's no reason why I shouldn't be allowed to.
 
the right of way re write of the law seems very confusing. Another example of poor governing, passing a barely legal jumble of a law when you cant pass the correct one. Less of an anti gun statement by Brewer, more of a shot at govt waste.
Reps knew they couldnt pass the original law, makes sense to "fix" it. Does not make sense to create a law that will result in mass confusion and endless court battles costing everyone far too much.
 
I can CCW at the age of 18 in Delaware, can walk on our main street CCW, if your not a student you can CCW on campus....but because I'm a student I can't CCW at UD on campus.
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So you could carry on campus as an 18 year old high school student, but not as a 21 year old college student?
 
To the letters of the law, I believe yes. It is our UD Student code of conduct that we sign that limits us from carrying.
 
Here's another article on this topic:

http://www.kold.com/story/14470773/ua-students-relieved-guns-on-campus-bill-vetoed#

I'm a professor in Idaho and I've debated this issue a little with my students. It's tough to do so most of the time because they are reluctant to talk about guns. You might as well be asking them how often they masturbate. But some will talk about guns. And the ones that do usually have the same two arguments against guns on campus:

1. They question why anyone needs a gun on campus. I say that a "need" for a weapon is irrelevant. It's my right. It's also a situation in which you DO have little use for it most of the time, but that is no reason to NOT keep one around. I don't need single malt scotch, or guitars, or beer, or cigars, but I always have them on-hand too.

2. They think guns on campus will be distracting. That they have a "right" to learn. They do not realize some students already carry. Been going on for some time I assume. The bottom line is they don't trust people sitting next to them. But they are all somehow OK with it outside the campus. The person in line behind them in the coffee shop could have a gun, and that somehow does not bother my students, but guns in class do.

I don't carry on campus. I check my gun with the police before walking onto campus. They are completely cool with it. Even had some good gun conversations with the local police. But I do go armed with a knife and pepper spray. It only takes one twitchy, nervous student sitting in the back of the class to make things uncomfortable.
 
This was an interesting article from USA Today last month.

Decriminalize self-defense (USA Today 3/1/2011)

By David Burnett

<snip>
"For some, allowing guns on campus seems about as smart as fighting a flood with a garden hose. A thousand what-if scenarios of students with guns seem to paint a vivid argument against guns on campus. However, these what-ifs boil down to nothing more than emotional arguments that don't match reality...." <snip>

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/editorials/2011-03-01-editorial01_ST1_N.htm
 
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Dr_B said:
Here's another article on this topic:

http://www.kold.com/story/14470773/ua-students-relieved-guns-on-campus-bill-vetoed#

I'm a professor in Idaho and I've debated this issue a little with my students. It's tough to do so most of the time because they are reluctant to talk about guns. You might as well be asking them how often they masturbate. But some will talk about guns. And the ones that do usually have the same two arguments against guns on campus:

1. They question why anyone needs a gun on campus. I say that a "need" for a weapon is irrelevant. It's my right. It's also a situation in which you DO have little use for it most of the time, but that is no reason to NOT keep one around. I don't need single malt scotch, or guitars, or beer, or cigars, but I always have them on-hand too.

2. They think guns on campus will be distracting. That they have a "right" to learn. They do not realize some students already carry. Been going on for some time I assume. The bottom line is they don't trust people sitting next to them. But they are all somehow OK with it outside the campus. The person in line behind them in the coffee shop could have a gun, and that somehow does not bother my students, but guns in class do.

I don't carry on campus. I check my gun with the police before walking onto campus. They are completely cool with it. Even had some good gun conversations with the local police. But I do go armed with a knife and pepper spray. It only takes one twitchy, nervous student sitting in the back of the class to make things uncomfortable.
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Do any of them argue as I will say, black and white, if your legally allowed to CCW by the state, you should be able to carry on campus?

Thanks for talking to your students about it.

I have not had a class discuss it yet as not many finance classes can be side tracked into gun talks :/ but I have spoken to some teachers on the side. Such as my accounting prof had a badge of sorts on her desk and FBI, NAVY, ARMY, etc hats in her office. I asked her about them, turns out she did forensic accounting for the different divisions and she keeps a hat from each as keep sake. Also, her father got her a little .38 when she left home and taught her how to use it along with the classic "always keep a round in the chamber ..." to which I jumped in and said "...or else its a paper weight". She smiled and laughed and now we have an understanding on a new level.
 
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Read her comments. She didn't sign because the bill sucked. I didn't like it either when I saw it, so I can pass through the campus with a gun, but not in campus?

I'm sad she vetoed, maybe next year they will get it right in the Senate.
 
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Some people have this belief that the security of the campus is disrupted if you have a bumch of college kids walking around with .44 magnums and to be honest ,that does sound frightening to most people! Ive heare this crazy anaology " Well if Im old enough to fight for my country I should be able to carry a weapon here on campus" Well sadly just because your old enough doesnt hold true ! When I joined the Corps we had over 100 people in my platoon , when I graduated we had about 33 , those 33 were qualified to carry , the rest of them were "weeded" out for various reasons, but im sure you wouldnt want them out carrying , same thing with a college campus, nothing against the CCW crowd , but c'mon , 90% of the enrollees will walk away with there certificate ,anyone ever attend a Motorcycle safety course , and see the boobs who want to control a motorcycle on our highway? those same idiots are carrying on our streets!
I was in Law Enforcement for 20 years , maybe Im biased ,but then again ,about 1/2 of the LEO community cant shoot worth a damn either ,I really dont want them carrying (whether they are on duty or not) .
I am not sure the answer , I agree with the Professor it is our right , but then again its our right to talk to and alot of people in this country dont know when to shut up either!
 
Dr_B said:
Here's another article on this topic:

http://www.kold.com/story/14470773/ua-students-relieved-guns-on-campus-bill-vetoed#

I'm a professor in Idaho and I've debated this issue a little with my students. It's tough to do so most of the time because they are reluctant to talk about guns. You might as well be asking them how often they masturbate. But some will talk about guns. And the ones that do usually have the same two arguments against guns on campus:

1. They question why anyone needs a gun on campus. I say that a "need" for a weapon is irrelevant. It's my right. It's also a situation in which you DO have little use for it most of the time, but that is no reason to NOT keep one around. I don't need single malt scotch, or guitars, or beer, or cigars, but I always have them on-hand too.

2. They think guns on campus will be distracting. That they have a "right" to learn. They do not realize some students already carry. Been going on for some time I assume. The bottom line is they don't trust people sitting next to them. But they are all somehow OK with it outside the campus. The person in line behind them in the coffee shop could have a gun, and that somehow does not bother my students, but guns in class do.

I don't carry on campus. I check my gun with the police before walking onto campus. They are completely cool with it. Even had some good gun conversations with the local police. But I do go armed with a knife and pepper spray. It only takes one twitchy, nervous student sitting in the back of the class to make things uncomfortable.
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Outstanding work, professor! Keep the discussion going. :)
 
"Do any of them argue as I will say, black and white, if your legally allowed to CCW by the state, you should be able to carry on campus?"

Yes, several have spoken up about that. My position is that 2nd amendment rights should not stop at the edge of campus. I understand not carrying in a courtroom, but college is not the same context.

Those who supported campus carry were generally not loud enough. And those who were against it were very loud and had the support of the university here. They argued against campus carry with fear-based arguments.

My opinion is that our effort to allow campus carry in Idaho died primarily because of three things:

1. Those who supported it did not speak out loud enough and did not organize themselves into a coherent group.

2. The bill was too general. For example, it would have allowed carry at large sporting events and also open carry. Personally, I am not a fan of open carry and I think we could have considered some amendments to limit carry in certain places on campus (like football games and tailgait parties).

3. The university is a large economic force in this state. If the university doesn't like something, the state listens.
 
^ And it was. Really, read the bill, and her response. It sucked. I could carry a gun through the school, not in it. That was the whole point of the bill. She'll sign a better version next year.
 
The bill was poorly written and could be a trap for those who are law abiding.

I believe the bill just allowed those who were on the right of way, like sidewalks and roads, to carry. So if you step on the grass you would not be lawful, but on the sidewalk you are legal? That is dumb.

Good idea to veto this bill and get a better worded bill.
 
Yes, and next time the Senate better get it right. We have a LARGE gun community here that will be wondering what happened.
 
I think she did the right thing... Time to let it sink in for another year...Maybe allow another state to help...Her veto about birth certificate was correct also...

Very good Governor IMHO
 
It may not be perfect and will most likely lead to great confusion but it's still more of an effort than we'll ever see in the great empire state of NY.
 
The problem you'll always be dealing with in talking about campus carry is the stereotypical image of a bunch of drunken frat boys waving guns around at a toga party. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

Neither college campuses nor public schools should be exempted from laws that allow CCW. IMHO, the only public places that should be "off limits" to firearms are criminal detention facilities, such as prisons, jails, court rooms, the detention facilities in police departments, and mental health detention facilities.
 
Atleast in DE you need to take a class as part of your CCW process. I loved it. Allowed me to learn "awareness and avoidance"-what one should live by when they CCW and also made sure you understood your NOT a policeman. Your an armed citizen for personal protection and protection of property. With that I think after you've been approved by the state why should college limit you. I can see some questions raised for states that do not have a class required, but once again it is a right and they shouldn't restrict that.
 
Doesn't Utah have Campus carry? How come I haven't heard of any shootouts in THEIR classrooms?

Same tired argument that never comes tru (ie blood in the streets, shootouts over parking spaces etc...etc)
 
How about look at the states with no license to CCW...look at their crime rates.

Not that I think all states should be like that. I do think a class requirement is a good idea. Just like drivers ED. But seriously...
 
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