Taurus Judge opinions?
- Thread starter ErikO
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Pretty interesting, somewhat long-winded, "test" of the Judge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRlry5KH6I0
This post is just plain wrong. Here is a post a made a while back on the judge and ammo selection.I see no redeeming value in the Judge. I'm still amazing when I see someone buying one, I want to tell them NO!
Box of truth did some basic testing. 410 shotshells are for snakes not self defense.
The 000 loads and 96gr slugs lacked penetration. The 45 LC is a solid round, but you don't need this oversized gun to shoot 45 LC. and other ones will shoot it more accurately.
http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot41.htm
Personally, I'd opt for a 3" SP101 or 4" GP100. Then you can still load an effective snake shot and have 100's of choices of loads in 38 special or 357 Mag in a gun that isn't supersized. My $.02. I'm sure I own guns though that other people say the same about.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6379786&postcount=14
Ammo selection is very important with the judge. The .410 000 buck from Fed is the only good choice. The Win PDX1 is a new load since I wrote the above and is a gimick. BB size shot has inadequate penetration from a 12 ga. shotgun. It will be even worse in a super shorty .410. The 3 defense disks don't have enough sectional density penetrate. Even the Fed load is only good for 12 - 15 yards.
You do need to be carefull about what .45 colt load you choose. The gold dot does not have enough velocity to expand, It's only in the 650 fps range. Silver tips are inconsistent. I would choose a load from Bufalo Bore heavy std presure or the win PDX1 .45 colt load. It's listed at around 850 fps from a 3 inch barrel.
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After watching the video it looks like one shot from the judge with the personal defense ammo definately will do some damage. Anybody that thinks that is gonna bounce off of a human is nuts. You want be doing that kinda damage with your little shotshells in your 357 or 44. I say the Judge is a very useful and versatile gun period and more than most. They are light wieght and come in all sizes. What is not to like about a gun this useful. Smith & Wesson figured this out late in the game too.
It's not a personal defense gun. It's a dandy snake gun with shotshells that you may be able to hit a rabid skunk with at 50' feet with Silvertips if you practice a lot. It's also homely looking and poorly balanced. This is from personal experience.
On the subject of personal experience, how many links can anyone post of a bad-guy taken down DRT with a Judge? My guess is zero. Let's get real.
On the subject of personal experience, how many links can anyone post of a bad-guy taken down DRT with a Judge? My guess is zero. Let's get real.
mebanecop
Member
I carry mine in rattlesnake country in the NC mountains while prospecting and have never had any reason to complain. It's the best trailgun I have ever carried and I own Smiths, Rugers, Colts and Taurus. I agree that it is not my first choice for a CCW.
Here is a bit more info I've found on the judge. About half way down the page there are posts from fsmith2610. He tests acuracy and wet pack penetration.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=43688.15
The following shows why the gold dot will not expand from a short barrel judge.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5785836&postcount=1
This shows what the gold dot will do from a longer barrel.
http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html
If you want to knock taurus for problems with QC, I would agree. My bother and I have 2 judges and 5 semis from them. I had to do some minor work on one judge and one semi to get them reliable. That's pretty much no QC in my opinion.
You can criticise it for low capacity as well. I'd rather have my G20sf with an extended mag and 20 rds of 10mm.
The Fed .410 load has limited range. But with in 12 -15 yards, I would take it over any common SD round for round. The problem is it just does not carry enough of them for me. Others are free to make that choice for themselves.
http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/index.php?topic=43688.15
The following shows why the gold dot will not expand from a short barrel judge.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=5785836&postcount=1
This shows what the gold dot will do from a longer barrel.
http://www.shooterslegacy.net/articles/45colt.html
If you want to knock taurus for problems with QC, I would agree. My bother and I have 2 judges and 5 semis from them. I had to do some minor work on one judge and one semi to get them reliable. That's pretty much no QC in my opinion.
You can criticise it for low capacity as well. I'd rather have my G20sf with an extended mag and 20 rds of 10mm.
The Fed .410 load has limited range. But with in 12 -15 yards, I would take it over any common SD round for round. The problem is it just does not carry enough of them for me. Others are free to make that choice for themselves.
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millertyme
Member
same opinion I have of most of Taurus' obscure and unique offerings:
Novel at best.
Novel at best.
Here is one
http://denver.cbslocal.com/2011/02/03/make-my-day-shooter/
The vid says he used buck of some sort. They show impact area where he missed his first shot. The pellets are in a close line, so I'd bet on it being the Fed load. I have read of 2 other cases where buck was used to kill bad guys. Didn't bookmark them so I can't give you the site or details. I've also read 2 other cases where the judge worked, but they didn't give details as to what ammo was used.
I take it you didn't read any of the links and have not seen what the Fed load can do. With the Fed .410 000 buck hand gun load the pattern is much tighter than you think. 4 pellets in a line that's 6 -7 inchs long 15 yards. Now if you're talking about bird shot or the Win 3 pellet load you would be correct.
Gryffydd
Member
The question isn't really whether the Judge has ever killed anybody, or if it can. The question is what on Earth does it actually do better than any of the other guns on the market that are smaller, lighter, more accurate, and more versatile? What are the benefits that it offers that are enough to outweigh all the downsides it brings?
It's good for snakes? I can fit plenty of shot in a regular ol' 45 Colt, .44 mag, or just about any other revolver shotshell as well.
Even a .38 Shotshell is plenty for taking out a snake.
The only way it offers any kind of a decent personal defense round outside of the .45 Colt (in which case you're MUCH better off to just buy a .45 Colt revolver) is with buckshot. Even that really isn't that great from a handgun. At least it sure doesn't seem to offer any edge in lethality over good, deep penetrating expanding handgun rounds. So that leaves bird shot. Which is great, for birds, snakes, and.... birds. But the range doesn't really let you do much with it you can't do with shotshells from any other round.
So what does that leave us?
Lets see your DRT cites for other hand guns rounds. most people hit with a hand gun round live. What I've read says about 75-80 percent. DRTs usualy involve a CNS shot. DRTs from a shot to the body are rare with any pistol round.
Good question. Why do people use .380 for HD when 9mm is around. Why would you use silly 9mm when the .40 is around, etc. .... why would you use a hand gun when a
12 ga. is much better. People have all sorts of reasons for things they do and logic is usualy not involved.
Gryffydd
Member
Because its smaller size and lower pressure limit allow it to be chambered in MUCH smaller guns. The .380 has some real advantages over the 9mm. They don't really play well into Home Defense, but maybe they can only afford one gun?
Higher capacity, lower recoil, lower cost without drastically inferior performance with modern ammunition.
I don't think I even need to explain this one...
I can imagine reasons to support all of those choices you listed. I'm still trying to figure out the advantage that the Judge offers that would outweigh its downsides. I'm not a Judge-Hater though--If somebody can explain to me why it's a worthwhile* firearm I'd be happy to listen.
*I should say, I have heard ONE reason to get one so far: It's the "I have more money than I know what to do with and I like the idea of tossing clays up in the air and shooting them with a revolver for the fun of it" explanation. It's a toy for those who already own enough useful guns to cover any need that might arise.
SWAT magazine did a feature on the Judge. Predictably, it didn't perform well with either .410 or .45lc. The .45lc didn't group well, and the .410 patterned in a donut shape. Everyone says what a great snake gun it would be, but the author made a point to mention that at typical snake-killin' distance, the pattern wouldn't even hit the snake's head.
As far as it being a Taurus, I think that they make perfectly serviceable guns that you need to do your own QC on. They are not on par with S&W. My personal experience is with a Taurus M85 that I bought new in 1995.
As far as it being a Taurus, I think that they make perfectly serviceable guns that you need to do your own QC on. They are not on par with S&W. My personal experience is with a Taurus M85 that I bought new in 1995.
oldfool
Member
Nobody with any meaningful knowledge of 45 LC caliber revolvers would waste their money on da' Judge as a 45 only... it's the shotshell gimmick that sells 'em. Go ahead, show us a bunch of posts about why people looking for a quality 45 only revolver would or should pick da' Judge over some/any other flavor 45 only.
Most people who own 'em don't even bother to load 45s in 'em more than a very few times "just to see" after newly purchased; they buy 'em to put shotshells in 'em.
Despite all the desperate efforts put forth to "justify" the effectiveness of a few pellets of 000 in a shell size too small to accommodate more of 'em, the marketing success of da' Judge is solely watermelon dependent. Compounded, of course by the silly implication in the sales pitch that you don't need to aim a gun that fires shotshells, much less 410 shotshells.
(drift on over to the shotgun sub-forum here, and make that pitch for any 410 shotgun as a great choice for SD; let us know how that works out)
410 shotshell handgun notions (including 45/410 derringers) have been recycled so many times over the years, it's ridiculous. Nobody was clever enough to do watermelon commercials with 'em, that's all.. Taurus ought pay a royalty to watermelon farmers on every one they sell.
snakes.. who's kidding who ?
a garden hoe will get it done, any mid-caliber handgun shotshell will get it done
a "snakecharmer" single shot will get it done better, and carries just as easy on a riding lawnmower or farm tractor
unless, of course, you need that fast draw DA to defend yourself against the platoon of kamikaze rattlers hiding in the watermelon patch
in which case you could just buy some snakeshot rounds for any 45 caliber revolver, of course.. it's only the zombie class rattlers that require 000
toys are fun, be they paintballs or 22 rimfire gatling guns or da' Judge
nothing wrong with that
no need to pretend it is what it ain't
but if looking for "the next big thing in gun marketing", a paintball vs. watermelon commercial might just be a big seller, preferably a 50AE caliber paintgun ??
colorful if nothing else
Most people who own 'em don't even bother to load 45s in 'em more than a very few times "just to see" after newly purchased; they buy 'em to put shotshells in 'em.
Despite all the desperate efforts put forth to "justify" the effectiveness of a few pellets of 000 in a shell size too small to accommodate more of 'em, the marketing success of da' Judge is solely watermelon dependent. Compounded, of course by the silly implication in the sales pitch that you don't need to aim a gun that fires shotshells, much less 410 shotshells.
(drift on over to the shotgun sub-forum here, and make that pitch for any 410 shotgun as a great choice for SD; let us know how that works out)
410 shotshell handgun notions (including 45/410 derringers) have been recycled so many times over the years, it's ridiculous. Nobody was clever enough to do watermelon commercials with 'em, that's all.. Taurus ought pay a royalty to watermelon farmers on every one they sell.
snakes.. who's kidding who ?
a garden hoe will get it done, any mid-caliber handgun shotshell will get it done
a "snakecharmer" single shot will get it done better, and carries just as easy on a riding lawnmower or farm tractor
unless, of course, you need that fast draw DA to defend yourself against the platoon of kamikaze rattlers hiding in the watermelon patch
in which case you could just buy some snakeshot rounds for any 45 caliber revolver, of course.. it's only the zombie class rattlers that require 000
toys are fun, be they paintballs or 22 rimfire gatling guns or da' Judge
nothing wrong with that
no need to pretend it is what it ain't
but if looking for "the next big thing in gun marketing", a paintball vs. watermelon commercial might just be a big seller, preferably a 50AE caliber paintgun ??
colorful if nothing else
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When I warm up to straw hat, corncob pipe, and suspenders I will be sure to check one of these out. I doubt it will ever happen as I never cared for the Hee Haaaw show anyway.
oldfool
Member
having said all that.. just to show a little love for our Judge-mental friends, you know
the perfect BUG for those days when that revolver don't hold quite enough for that snake attack in the melon patch
http://www.gunblast.com/Bond-Derringer.htm
you know need one, don't deny it
the perfect BUG for those days when that revolver don't hold quite enough for that snake attack in the melon patch
http://www.gunblast.com/Bond-Derringer.htm
you know need one, don't deny it
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