2 3/4 vs 3 Inch 00 Buck For HD

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Hey guys, I was shopping around yesterday and I saw some bulk double aught buck for sale. They were 2 3/4 shells, my shotgun had a 3 inch chamber. Now my question is, is it worth it to buy 3 inch shells or just stick with the 2 3/4 inch? I've heard from various people that pretty much flat out say that 3 inch shells are total rip offs and are just produced for making money.
 
Do you live out in the country with no other houses nearby? If you live in the city I wouldn't recommend anything bigger than No. 4 buckshot
 
Retaining some hearing in an indoors home defense situation is pretty important to me. :) For military/police use the nine 00 2 3/4 inch has been a gold standard. The three inch is for big game outdoors.
 
I would stick with 2 3/4". They have more than enough velocity to get the job done (even the reduced recoil ones). 3" will just slow down your follow up shots. The recoil difference even between standard and reduced recoil 12g buckshot I've tried is very substantial.
 
I've shot at a bunch of silhouette targets at an indoor range, using LE/low recoil 2 3/4" buckshot, regular ol' 2 3/4" buckshot and 3" magnum buckshot. Under no circumstances would I ever personally choose to use 3" buckshot for SD/HD, both due to the extra recoil and due to the dang-near-debilitating flash that you get from magnum loads.

Considering that low-recoil 2 3/4" buckshot provides ample penetration inside of 25 yards for social needs, I can see no reason to use anything 'magnum'....
 
Do you have a problem with bears breaking into your house?

If not, 2 3/4" buckshot should be fine.
 
For closeup work, 0 to 20 feet, any buckshot will do. Pattern it in your gun and you will see there is virtually no pattern at these distances.
I went for the low recoil because beating myself up at the range has gotten old.I'll get in more practice and quicker follow up shots with the low recoil. You can read up on one view of penetration power on Box of Truth.com. but good arguments can be made for either 4, 1, and 00 buck.
Recently I tried federal le132 00 for the tight pattern if I would ever need a long shot. Low recoil, great pattern out towards 40 yards, but next time I buy ammo if there is any cheaper low recoil buckshot available I may give it a try because my most likely shots on my property are under 6M, with one unlikely shot of 20 meters.
 
I agree with the lower recoil.
You'll be taking a shot at less than 20'.
To me, getting back on target is more important than maximum penetration.
Practicing is more important than maximum penetration.
....and maybe your family would shoot something that doesn't knock them over too.
I like #4 buck. I don't think you can find it in Low Recoil.

I even like .410 in the home, but that's another argument.
 
No need for the extra recoil, muzzle flash and muzzle blast of the 3" buckshot - 2.75" will do fine, as long as you do your part.

lpl
 
Magnum in buckshot means more pellets, not more velocity. In fact magnum loads usually have lower velocity than standard loadings because of pressure limitations. When the factory increases the shot payload they have to back off on the powder a little to keep the pressure within the safe limits of what your shotgun can handle.
 
I've never noticed any significant differences in pattern size in my shotguns at 10 yards, between the 2 3/4" and 3" 00 buck loads. That includes 12 pellet and 9 pellet loads.

The only one that made a significant difference is the Federal Flite Control in 2 3/4" which has a tighter pattern than just about everything else I've tried. It's now my faithful old stand-by round for 12 gauge shotguns in general now.
 
forget the buckshot, get some 5 or 6 loads, buckshot is good at stopping something at range, bird shot is good for making the thing in front of you disapear
 
bird shot is good for making the thing in front of you disapear
Only if they're built like birds.

Choosing to use birdshot for HD/SD is not a choice that I would make (assuming that I'm defending against human beings and not rampaging milk jugs or man-eating chukkar), but to each their own. However, it seem inappropriate for anyone to actively use this forum to encourage others to do the same without first providing acceptable proof of effectivity.
 
However, it seem inappropriate for anyone to actively use this forum to encourage others to do the same without first providing acceptable proof of effectivity.

Black%20Cloud%20Entry.JPG

http://www.diyballistics.com/?p=127

this guy did some testing of his own.
 
A direct hit with a 12 gauge 2 3/4 00 will absolutely take care of whatever trouble comes your way. You can use 3", at the expense of:

1. Higher recoil which leads to:
2. Slower follow up shots.
3. And possibly lower capacity.

My shotgun can hold five 2 3/4" shells but only four 3" shells.
 
With regard to birdshot- Standard # 7.5 shot fired at a distance of 20 feet directly into the side of a typical automobile won't do much more than remove the paint, put in a dent and some surface dimples. I wasn't able to shoot through standard modern auto sheetmetal with #7.5 Win Super Targets until I was within 10 feet. Even then, the shot charge is dispersed by the metal and door inner workings & interior panels to the point that it made some peppering of the seat that seemed to me to be no worse than the sparks from a large angle grinder.
At one time I stood on the roof and fired two shots downwards at about a 30 degree angle into the trunk lid- these blasted roughly 2X bore-diameter holes in the trunk lid but this was less than 6 feet away.

Compare that to Fiocchi nickle-plated 2-3/4" 00 plated buckshot which from 30' away easily penetrated the car's door, the seats, and destroyed the inner door panel of the next side door and bulged out the metal door skin.


As far as Magnum 3" buck- the only need for that in hunting is to get more shot out to longer distances. You'll be shooting at hallway distances and dimensions. Reduced recoil LE buckshot works very very well in this situation for less recoil, less report, better follow up shots. Plus my shotguns hold more 2-3/4" shells than 3" shells.
 
There's a reason that buckshot has been the go-to HD/SD load for well over a century.
I agree with you that 00 is the bees knees.

But disagree that that birdshot of various size shot cant play apart in ones HD plans. The pictures on the link I posted show that birdshot also can be pretty devastating.
 
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Birdshot causes massive shallow wounds that look terrible but will not likely cause incapacitation of an attacker. Since the only reason that I'm liable to shoot at someone is to stop a deadly attack upon me/mine, I'm not aiming for gruesome looking - I'm only interested in incapacitation.

And that rules out birdshot for me.
 
Magnums DON'T Just Have Heavier Payloads But More Energy!

Magnum in buckshot means more pellets, not more velocity. In fact magnum loads usually have lower velocity than standard loadings because of pressure limitations. When the factory increases the shot payload they have to back off on the powder a little to keep the pressure within the safe limits of what your shotgun can handle.

Sorry, but I hear it stated or, as implied here, that magnum 12 ga. loads are the same or weaker than standard loads periodically and I want to be clear. That is NOT correct. A Magnum load has a significant weight of shot increase and a relatively small decrease in velocity. Yeah, weight is discounted and velocity is geometric in energy calculations vs. linear, but magnum loads simply have much more net energy. 2-3/4" standard 00 Buckshot loads compared to a 2-3/4" Magnum loads have a 33% increase in number and weight of projectiles and only a 35 fps, or 2.6%, decrease in velocity. Common sense should tell you that is more powerful. Magnums have more energy, plain and simple. They use more and/or different powder. More energy is more power. I did the actual energy calculations and show the comparisons below, but, if you don't believe them trust the felt recoil...

General Information:
Shot Gauge Length-in-Inches Muzzle-Velocity Shot-Count Energy-above-Standard
00 12 2-3/4" Standard 1325 FPS 9 Pellets
00 12 2-3/4" Magnum 1290 FPS 12 Pellets 26% more energy than standard shell
00 12 3" Magnum 1210 FPS 15 Pellets 39% More energy than standard shell

To answer the thread: stick with regular shells for close, HD, ranges. And I would go with lighter weight #2 Shot or #4 Buckshot for 15 yd ranges in and around a home, especially in an apartment or with close neighbors.
 
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Gee, I hate to stick my head into the meatgrinder here, but:

lobo9er: That's a great link to the Guy who did some of his own "bird shot" Gel testing. He used a real nice distance of 15 feet (not excessively long, I think apropriate for INSIDE the house defense, especially if you're in a 1500 sq ft or less house, or a typical 2 bedroom apartment of 8 to 900 sq ft)). He also used a modified choke and Mossberg 835. He used 2 layers of Denim in front of the Gel block (and leaves us to assume its 10% and he used a BB Cal shot, and it met the standard--neither mentioned)

But the point to remember, while he calls it "Bird shot", it is, just barely. It's very large "Goose/Crane/Turkey" shot. Not your average bunny or even pheasent buster--let alone a quail or Clay load. He used size F steel (.22 in dia: #4 Buck is .24) , and BB steel. Both are or EXCEED what can be expected from #2 Lead at the same velocity. The maker, Federal, list the velocity at 1450 fps on the BB (3" 1 1/4 oz BlackCloud) He does use a #6 2 oz turkey load, but from a 3 1/2 in shell. I can't find this load on Federal's website (maybe it's discontinued? Cheaper Than Dirt lists it, and claims 1300 fps--I'd rather see that claimed by Federal, but such is life...). While shot size, material (lead) and velocity might be considered to be a (old time/pre ban) Duck and Pheasent load, 2 oz is a LOT of shot.

You got to ask yourself, Will meat and bone be disintagrated like the Gel Block was? About 3 #6 pellets made it 10 in, most are back at the 6 in area. It's like the leading edge of the shot string clears the way for the shot behind it. Other labs/peoples tests with 1 to 1 1/4 oz of 6 or 7 1/2 lead certainly DON'T show this kind of performance on a gel block. Also, this load uses a "flight control" style wad and the pattern at 15 feet could be smaller than expected from a standard plastic petal wad.

What's the recoil/shot recovery going to be like on a 2 oz 1450 fps load? Hocka Louis' 12ga 3 in 15 pellet load would weigh about 2 1/4 oz but at only 1210 fps. (I assumed 65 gn per pellet)

Hasn't "The Box of Truth" testing pretty much shown (considering the F and BB loads that exited the gel block) that anything that meets FBI min standards IS a threat to anyone in the next room, 2 or 3 "walls" away? So we may have finally found a "Bird Shot" BIG enough and FAST enough that it truely is a manstopper--It might as well be 00 Buck to the sleeping persons next door....

Just things to make you go, "hummmm".
 
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