Case Prep Tools For Precision Rifle Shooting

I spent over three hours comparing reloading tools online last night and the problem seemed to be diverging rather than converging on a purchase solution. I searched this forum, but my search foo is weak, and it's difficult to search for the equipment recommendations I know have already been posted.

I've been reloading since 1994. I've loaded a lot of pistol and semi-auto rifle plinking ammo. I've reloaded some plinking ammo for my .50 BMG bolt action rifle (surprisingly accurate!), but now I'm finally ready to finish taking the plunge and get into precision reloading for best rifle accuracy. I'm a geeky engineer, so the fussy technology thing is already working for me, and I love reading and learning about the craft and science, so I'm not fishing for the five minute enlightenment that will have me winning bench rest matches.

I want to invest in a case trimmer that will allow me to trim necks even and to a precise repeatable length. The Wilson looks good in that regard. I'd like to be able to use the same trimmer and have a fast changeover that will allow me to switch back and forth between different calibers - currently .50 BMG and .308, but I may want to add one or two later. The longer .50 BMG version of the Wilson allows this, I think. I also think it'd be great if I could trim to length, chamfer and debur in one operation for maximum efficiency and repeatability, and apparently there is a good Forstner carbide tool to do this for .308 and a couple of other calibers, but the Forstner won't do any .50 BMG? I may be looking at one set of equipment for .50 BMG, and another for all lesser calibers?

Some accessory tools do inside or outside neck turning on the trimmers. I have a manual Forstner outside neck turning tool (slow and tedious) and mandrels for .223, .308 and .50 BMG. What neck turning do I need to do if I'm only neck sizing fire formed brass for bolt action rifles, and what's the best equipment to do that?

What's the best equipment to neck size .308 and .50 BMG?

Apparently, the Wilson case trimmers use case holders that are cut with a chamber reamer to locate the brass perpendicular to the cutter for a very straight perpendicular neck trim, but the OD of the case holders is not well controlled so when they're clamped into the case trimmer, they aren't aligned coaxial to the cutter, so any chamfer could be offset .001" or so off center (total error twice that), and the workaround is not to clamp the case holder and allow it to self center, which sounds suboptimal to me.

And of course, what other issues am I not considering?

Like Rosanne Rosannadanna said, I sure ask a lot of questions for a guy from New Jersey... except I'm from Kentucky.

If you'd rather spend ten minutes discussing this complex topic rather than try to type an answer, PM me and I'll call you at your convenience, and write up the recommendations for this thread so other High Roaders can hopefully benefit.

Looking forward to small groups!

Thanks in advance.

Thank you for the info on the Giraud. I had it in my old reloading links, but wasn't even considering them this time. I guess I forgot about them and I was only looking at the mass marketed equipment.

The Giraud definitely meets my criteria of reliability, quality, accuracy and fast efficient operation. At $425, it's not cheap, but I wouldn't expect it to be cheap because it's not a cheap tool. If you wanna play, you gotta pay. I love that it has caliber specific carbide cutters that trim, chamfer (for VLD bullets) and de-burr in one operation. The changeover between calibers requires replacing the entire cutting head assembly, but it's not too expensive to do this. It apparently isn't as fast a changeover as I wanted, and it apparently requires wasting some cases in the fine tuning part, which I don't like. I want to trim 50 .50 MBG cases, spend a minute or two switching over, and then trim 50 .308 cases... and have them all match cases I previously trimmed.

The Giraud also ships with case holders for fully resized cases. I'd like to use neck sized cases. Giraud will make a custom case holder if you send them three neck sized cases, but that's an added expense and delay.

Speaking of delay, the ordering page on the Giraud website explains that this is a sideline business done on weekends that Doug isn't shooting. Placing an order puts you on the waiting list. I'm a modern, immediate gratification kinda guy!

I'm certain my questions won't result in the one perfect answer. There will always be compromises. Giraud is definitely in the running, although I'm probably heading for dedicated caliber specific manually operated tools, especially for .50 BMG, given my relatively low volume precision trimming needs.

Who knows? Maybe I'll design the next greatest precision case prep tool? Probably not.

lightman said:

I favor those by Sinclair.

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I started this quest on the Sinclair International website, lusting over the Wilson Ultimate Stainless trimmer. It won't do .50 BMG, and this and most Wilson tools are back ordered at Sinclair. I'll call Sinclair when they're open tomorrow and ask about replacing the mounting rail with the .50 BMG version to hopefully make one uber-nice Wilson trimmer that does all the calibers I want. I do like the Wilson versatility and the changeovers seem fast and easy.

I'm still a bit put out that the Wilson case holders don't have uniform outer diameters to allow them to precisely align for coaxial chamfer operations. The Forstner uses collets that will apparently work with full resized or neck sized cases, and they do align coaxially to center the neck on the various tools. Forstner also has the nice carbide cutter that trims, chamfers and deburs in one operation, and doesn't crud up with brass shavings like the more complicated RCBS adjustable 3-way cutter, but the Forstner cutters are only available in .223, .308 and one other caliber.

Decisions, decisions.

Thank you all for the very valuable advice and info.

flashhole said:

You might consider easing into your ultimate equipment purchase with some less expensive tools.

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That was part of my motivation for starting this thread. I'm certainly not looking for the most expensive tools that will impress the chicks and make me feel like a better shooter than I am. I believe my current case prep tools are adequate for safe reloading but may not be adequate to create the accurate loads I seek. From what I've read and how I think things work, I doubt case length is all that critical, but it's a relatively easy and inexpensive parameter to control when minimizing variation, and an accurate trim length can be important for accurate chamfer which seems to be important when seating bullets for best accuracy. My goal is to get some good simple tools that are reliable and accurate, that might also have accessories that do other related functions such as chamfering, neck turning, primer pocket uniforming, etc.

flashhole said:

All my guns are factory stock, no custom barrels or expensive triggers, and all shoot well under 1/2 MOA.

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There was a time not long ago that a 1/2 MOA rifle was an expensive custom built affair. With some practical science and understanding, there are many off-the shelf rifles for under $1000 that are sub-MOA with a hand load that matches the rifle. This is a good thing.

flashhole said:

I use the Lee Trimmers and Case Length Gauges.

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I have the Lee trimmers and case length gages and use them for all my reloading, and they trim with repeatability to within a few thousandths of length. That's probably close enough, although I was concerned that the necks might not be trimmed close enough to 90 degrees for best accuracy, and I was hoping to also add a consistent chamfer and de-burr at the same time, to reduce the steps needed with the hope of making the process faster and more accurate.

flashhole said:

I suggest you invest in a concentricity gauge and a micrometer....

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I bought a Sinclair concentricity gage less than a year ago in anticipation of reloading for greater accuracy. I understand how to use this tool to measure the runout of the neck and the seated bullet, and how to use this information to prevent and correct these problems.

flashhole said:

You don't need a lot of expensive equipment to make quality ammo but I find the biggest accuracy bang for the buck is in the seat dies. I like Forster by brand name, either the benchrest or ultra model, they both work equally well.

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I was just comparing the Forster case trimming tools and accessories on their website. They have much more information than I was able to find on the Sinclair or Midway websites, including a chart that shows which accessories work with which trimmer. I learned that for some reason, their three way cutter that trims, chamfers and de-burrs works with the Original but not their Classic trimmer. The same is true for their neck turning accessories. While on the Forster site, I started to look at their bullet seating dies. I have Lee dies and I think they make very good dies that are a great value, but I've noticed variation in my bullet seating depth and runout that needs to be addressed in my pursuit of smaller groups. It's possible that some aspect of my reloading technique is at fault, but I may also need a more precise seating die.

flashhole said:

The die threads have considerable slop. I don't lock mine down in the press until I have inserted a case. Then it becomes self-aligning. This is a simple step that pays huge dividends.

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Thanks for the tip. That seems obvious after I hear it, and I may have read that a long time ago, but not being well versed in precision reloading, I probably wouldn't have done this, even though I use a similar trick when reloading pistol ammo on my progressive press, where I deprime only in the first stage and use the resizing die without the decapping pin in the second stage to center the case as the primer is inserted, although that trick is for reliable priming and not accuracy.

flashhole said:

If you decide you do want to neck trim, the K&M tool is very nice.

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I have a few simple K&M hand tools that I purchased a couple of years ago for more accurate .50 BMG reloading, but have not yet put them to good use as I'm just getting started in my pursuit of precision. I was impressed with the design and quality of these simple tools. I like simple well-built tools. That's the kind of recommendation I was hoping to receive in this thread.

flashhole said:

There is a lot of good equipment on the market but I find a lot of people don't take the time to learn to use it correctly. Your accuracy will start improving when you start paying serious attention to detail and that is not directly proportional to the amount of money you spend on tools.

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My goal is not to spend a lot of money, but rather to make some wise purchases for tools that offer good value that will be useful as I improve my skill and knowledge, as I learn what's important and what isn't. I was also hoping to buy good tools that I could use for as many calibers as possible, partly to save money but also to avoid the learning curve of having different tools to do the same job on different calibers.

Slightly Philosophical Comment On Accuracy: Group size is important, but to me, it's more of a necessary step toward my goal. I think many reloaders are elated if they shoot a small group and they don't care where it is as long as it's on the paper. If asked, they'll say that they can simply adjust the scope and move the group into the center ring. Maybe, but I'm particularly interested in knowing where that first shot goes. To me, it's the difference between actual accuracy and theoretical accuracy. A reloader can sort brass and bullets by several parameters and each mini-batch of five rounds will be very consistent within that mini-batch, but the point of impact may be significantly different from one row of ammo in the box to another. I'm also not a big fan of shooting 100 rounds with five shot groups that range from 3/8" to 1.6" and declare a 3/8" MOA rifle and load, as long as the sun is shining and there is no wind, and you're allowed ten Do Overs. And don't even get me started on three shot groups.

As before, thank you all for the useful info, recommendations and tips.

I agree that the Giraud is more space and money than I wanted to devote. I already have an RCBS Case Prep Center that's a bit underpowered for trimming, but I use it for trimming anyway. I'd love to get a carbide tool that trims, chamfers and deburrs with a Lee-style case length gage to control trim length. I mostly use that when I'm reloading 1000 rounds of .223 for semi-auto plinking and accuracy isn't paramount.

For more precise low volume bolt action bench rest type shooting, I'm still learning the tricks, hopefully by reading instead of by making costly mistakes, and I'm still looking into the equipment to see what would be best for my needs. Hopefully, this public exploration and minor obsessing will benefit others going down the same path.

I was originally drawn to the Wilson case trimmer. The stainless Sinclair version looks like a real work of art! After some reading, I now think the shark fin latch secures the case holder in a manner that is very perpendicular to the cutter for a nice square cut, but the OD of the case holder isn't well controlled so the case isn't coaxially aligned to the cutter, which makes chamfering less accurate and the three way trim-chamfer-debur operation problematic.

That's pushing me more in the direction of the Forster. It looks well made, if not jewel-like quality, but the collet design that holds the case is self centering. It's also a bit less expensive.

I did contact Forster, Sinclair and K&M with regard to a .50 BMG trim-chamfer-debur operation, and I received some "we'll think about it" responses. I guess I could always roll my own as an after market accessory to one of the compatible case trim tools.

It's starting to look like I'll buy separate precision case prep tools for each bolt action rifle. I'm fussy about changeovers that require recalibration. I like repeatability.