Old Military Rifles

I'm a complete history geek. From early 18th century flintlocks to M4s if an Army used it I wanna shoot it. It's fun, and you learn a little at the same time.

I have 2MOA at 100 yards on my 1929 Mosin Nagant. Once I finish the trigger it will probably be a bit better, after bedding and floating I can see 1MOA or better. Modern guns have no advantages. 8mm mauser holds its own against .30-06 real well and with handloading it can outperform it.

7.65 mauser? Never heard of it.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=7.65+mauser

not uncommon at all.

at least 60 years of military service.

I have to agree with all the reasons FOR that have been given. "Old Military Rifles"? They have SOUL, man!! Personality!

As said before... Just buy you a couple. You'll totally understand. In fact, we'll all sit back and laugh as the obsession overtakes you!!! It happens to all of us! It's a great addiction to have though.

Maybe I will pick some old military rifle up someday if I come across something I like. After all, it's a piece of history as you've all said.

Now, how do you know the one you're looking at hasn't been shot to death?

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the same way you check any used rifle.....

inspect the bore, make sure the rifling is sharp and well defined.....look for signs of rust or pitting.....make sure everything locks up as it should......make sure no ones hacked it up or done any basement gunsmithing.......

since on the subject of military rifles anyone know if theres anywhere to get parts for the 1907-15 berthier ?

Why do I have more old military rifles than I care to count? Character. Each and every one of them is unique. That character began when they were manufactured and continued to develop as they were carried by the soldiers they were assigned to.

Take one apart. Look at all of the machine work that went into producing the parts. These parts were produced on mechanically driven equipment, possibly driven by a steam engine, and operated by men. Lots of care and attention went into their production. The serial number and inspection marks on these parts attest to this care and attention.

Look at the stock. Each was carefully crafted to fit properly and finished to endure the abuse of war. This includes the harsh environments that they would encounter - mud, sand, rain, snow, ice, blazing heat and life on the battlefield. It's possible that they show evidence of their exploits. Scratches, dings, cracks, gouges and even repairs. Occasionally you might find a stock with amazing tiger stripes. Each and every one of these marks further define the character of the military rifle.

The causes for which they were produced define an inate character in these rifles. Be it a Civil War rifle, a World War II rifle or rifle produced for any other conflict or the prevention there of. These moments define the men and and equipment that they used.

Military rifles are most often chambered for powerful cartriges. These rifles were intended to stop and defeat the enemy. The ammunition they use clearly demonstrates this. They can conduct their business effectively from across the street and across hundreds of yards. They mean business.

To own and become familiar with these rifles is something that many of us enjoy. From the disassembly and inspection after the purchase to the time spent on the range and the care given to cleaning after the use of corossive ammunition.

Your friend is familiar with these aspects and while he might deal with ammunition that may not fire, he does value the character of his rifle. I share that interest and value the military rifles that I own more than you can understand until you own and care for one yourself.

bigedp51
Google .303 British ammunition and stop crying, $13.95 for a box of 20 it would be hard to reload for that price. Plus Prvi is the best .303 ammo you can buy for your Enfield rifle, it has thicker rims, the base diameter is larger and the case wall are .010 thicker than any other brand.

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I was mostly referring to surplus ammo, I enjoy buying dirt cheap 7.62x54R, 8x57, and 9x18. I've never paid 13 dollars a box for ammo except for 45 and they came in boxes of 50! But I'm well aware of the PPU ammo in various surplus calibers.

A lot of us are drawn to old military guns, is because we're old military guys.
If you don't get it you're not going to.

One of the best firearm purchase I've ever made was a M24/47 Yugo Mauser in "8mm" Mauser (7.92x57). I paid $200 for it and it is in beautiful shape. It's not at all a shabby rifle. Frankly, I could not have found a newly manufactured, commercial rifle for the price that would be able to come close to the performance of that Mauser. Plus, it has history, is beautiful, and surplus ammo is available for cheap practice (so it gets to see a lot of range time). I can of course buy commercial ammo for hunting (Prvi Partisan is one of my favorites...Serbian just like my Mauser). If I wanted to, I could easily scope it but I've always preferred iron sights.

Long story short, there's no way I could beat the value I've gotten out of that Mauser. In general, I've been very happy with all my old milsurp purchases. These days it's gotten a bit hard for me to stomach the price of a new commercial rifle when I know I can probably find two or more surplus rifles that will have history and equal or greater functionality for the same price. I highly recommend trying it out sometime, you won't be disappointed.

A final thought, the whole corrosive ammo issue is, IMHO, blown WAY out of proportion. It's really not that big a deal. Just use a little windex (or other ammonia based cleaner) before cleaning the rifle. I know some people seem to get annoyed that they need to clean the rifle if they've fired corrosive ammo, but really to me, a rifle should be cleaned regardless (you spot potential future problems, prevent common malfunctions, and increase the longevity of the tool). I always clean guns, corrosive ammo or non, after every shooting.

I agree with cleaning after use, except with my target rifles. Once they are seasoned I like them to stay that way. They do get cleaned, but not every time out.


Yes, corrosive ammo is misunderstood. So is Windex. All you need to remove the salts is hot, soapy water. Follow that with a brush and your solvent of choice until clean, dry patches and a light coat of oil.


Windex has ammonia in it, which helps to remove copper residue. It can also do damage to other metals if left too long.


I prefer elbow grease and solvent. Proper cleaning does fine.

I remember not too long ago seeing Mosins at a gun show and thinking, "why would anyone want one of those old things?" Now I completely understand.
As I get older I appreciate history more.

Quite frankly, other than my son, I hope that not many more new people learn to "see the light".
This would increase prices and make them much harder to find.

This is why I deleted the reasons they are interesting, and that they are not "plastic poodle shooters".

because they are cheap and fun to shoot.........do you really need another reason?

whats not to understand? Guns such as mosin nagants are often cheap to buy, and cheap to shoot if you get your ammo at the right place. I don't know if Ive ever been as pleased with a $100 purchase as I am with my 91/30. For the money, I still can't believe how much rifle I got, not to mention the historical value it holds.

So for under $100 I got a reliable, powerful, accurate rifle, with affordable ammo (costs around $90 for 440 rounds). Oh and did I mention it was made in 1942 and was ready to be issued in ww2? I don't see how any gun entheusiest could go wrong with that! You don't need to be a collector to appreciate history.

I liked these answers but the quoter was broken?


Some people do crack....guns are my preference! Cheaper and healthier and AMERICAN, Not mention History....How cool. Did I mention... I can't understand why someone would NOT want (old)guns. Oh yeah crack heads???? LOL Hope you get a cool old gun and get the FEVER!

Because they are the only class of rifles that are appreciating in price while you own them. Maybe finely crafted European double rifles are going up, but who can afford one? So, if you want some tangible object that will not loose value (unless burned, beat or lost) - mil-surp rifles are a good way to go. No, they are not going up as fast as gold, but they are going up. And, they are fun to shoot

There are many very good explanations here, although I think neolithic1 and Ruger McMarlin said it best.
There is a feeling of history when you hold one of these old rifles. They can be inexpensive to own and shoot. Most of them are very reliable and perform well.
I'd wager that if you try it, you'll be hooked.

Surplus rifles are no longer cheap, except the Mosin Nagant 91/30s on the market today. If I had to buy my small collection today, I could not afford them. Anyone can shoot a Remchester but it takes a little more to shoot some of these 100+ year old rifles to their potential.

There is nothing about corrosive ammo that you need to be concerned about. The only thing different about it is you need to properly clean the rifle after shooting to prevent the bore from rusting.....chris3

Surplus rifles are no longer cheap, except the Mosin Nagant 91/30s on the market today.

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I'm going to have to disagree here. Many surplus rifles are still FAR cheaper than available commercial rifles. Most Winchester and Remington bolt action rifles are at least $600...you can buy an M1 Garand from the CMP for less than that, or three Yugo 24/47s or 6+ Mosins. It's true that surplus rifles are not as cheap as they used to be (it's upsetting to us younger guys to see the deals people were getting 5-10 years ago) but it's still by far the cheapest way to buy a rifle capable of target shooting and hunting (with history as a bonus) or a collection of such rifles. For the cost of one of those Remchesters, I could buy a Yugo M24/47, buy ~700rds of ammo, and still have $200 left over to scope it (or in my case, buy more ammo).

All you need to remove the salts is hot, soapy water. [...] Windex has ammonia in it, which helps to remove copper residue. It can also do damage to other metals if left too long.

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Thanks, neolithic1 for pointing that out, I should have been more clear for others. I've always used windex (or more commonly the cheap store brand) but always immediately followed up by my normal cleaning with solvents, etc but you're absolutely right that hot, soapy water does the trick as well (I tend to do a lot of my shooting where getting hot water requires building a fire so the windex method works best for me).

In the past, military rifles didn't interest me either except for one and that is the venerable M1. But in the last 3 or 4 years I'ved gotten interested in them. I now have a Yugo Mauser, a Russian sks and a Swiss k31. Of course, I now also want a Garand and may take a trip to Alabama in the near future to visit the CMP there.

In my younger days, I was only interested in semi autos and in later years bolt guns got my attention. If you are not interested in the military arms now you may do like I did and find that your tastes and interests change over the years. I like guns period. Some maybe more than others but most of them at least interest me.

Sounds like a worth while trip

For me, shooting is fun; but learning is sublime.
I can do both by collecting mil-surp rifles, and building my own 1911s.

For me? History, mostly. I only own one antique now (well, two, but I'm selling the Nylon 66), a 1942 Finnish M39 on a 1905 czar-marked hex receiver.



From its markings, one can deduce that this rifle was manufactured in Izhevsk, Russia for the Imperial Russian army in 1905. It may have seen some action in World War I, given the rifle shortages the Russian army was facing at the time. It ended up in Finland when the Finns broke away from Russia during the Bolshevik Revolution, was issued to the Finnish Army, and likely saw a great deal of action during the Winter War 1939-1940.

When the Finns got some breathing room in 1942, the rifle was upgraded to M39 status at the Finnish VKT arsenal in Jyvaskyla, where it received a fine Finn barrel, a new stock, and range-compensating Finn sights graduated from 150 meters to 2.0 kilometers. It likely saw additional action against both the Soviets and the Nazis before the war was over.

Possibly during the war, an artistic Finnish soldier delicately carved the initials "E.T." into the rear sight base, where they wouldn't easily be seen by casual inspection. At some point after the war, the rifle was retired and placed into storage as part of the Finnish Army's reserve. During the mid-1990's, Finland allowed many of its older bolt-action rifles to be sold and exported, which is how I came to own it.

The rifle is 106 years old this year (well, except for the barrel and stock, which are only 69), and it can still shoot the center out of a playing card at 100 yards with the right ammunition.

It's not worth a lot from a financial standpoint, but it's a textbook of Russian and Finnish history, and played a part in some of the most important historical events of the twentieth century. That's fascinating to me.

FWIW, I only shoot new-production ammunition in that rifle. Nothing corrosive (or corroded).