Seating .308 bullets with no groove.

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

Ignition Override

Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
9,366
Location
The Mid-South.
My only previous reloading has been .303 (.311) British).
Am in the first stage of depriming/sizing these commercial .308 cases.

While then checking that the bullet does not go into the resized case neck, it was obvious that there is no groove in these match .308 bullets.

When I get to the bullet seating stage in the next one or two days, how do you know that the bullet is seated deep enough in the case?

My guru gave me these perfect match bullets for my M-1, but don't yet have any plinking bullets for my Spanish FR8 Mauser (.308).
 
If you are loading for 308Win, the OAL is 2.800"
Forget the absence of any groove.

(And don't even try to crimp as long as you are
using conventional resizing dies. They will provide
proper neck tension w/o a crimp.)
 
Your loading manual will specify an OAL. Usually, it is 2.750" for a .308. Use your calipers to measure that length. Simply adjust the seating die a little bit at a time until you get the desired depth. You don't need a cannelure to judge seating depth.
 
The rule of thumb is to have at least one calibers worth of full diameter shank in the neck. 2.800 is the max O.A.L., not a load to length.
 
Thanks guys. Just bought the Lee dies today. The instructions show a 2.8" OAL.
Curious about what the OAL Minimum length can be.

They are some Am. Eagle and Winchester .308, but most are labeled Winchester 7.62 on white boxes (bought more today), even though commercial ammo
Why was this ammo discounted to $12/box? Maybe it is commercial brass, but as all my powder load are at the minimum, this will help.

MEHavey: A sample of eight bullets each weigh exactly 194.2 grains.
 
Last edited:
The only rifle ammo that I crimp is for my lever guns, there it is necessary. The length is usually stated as minimum overall length and the SAMMI length is the max length. The recipe often calls for a overall length and propellant charge that are a "Good in the firearm tested" length and can be varied from there but that length is a good starting point often times. Then when working up a load try moving the bullet in and out slightly while keeping your accuracy propellant charge constant, the firearm will tell you what it likes. Just make sure it does not go in really deep as this will raise the pressure in the round or make it too long to feed in the rifle. Sounds like you are having a great time learning.:D
Dont forget to reduce propellant 10% for starting loads also.
 
...at least one calibers worth of full diameter shank in the neck....
Click to expand...
...bullets each weigh exactly 194.2 grains...
Click to expand...

I had assumed by "grooveless match bullet" you were sitting at 168gr (for which 2.800" is appropriate.)
But at 190+ grains, I gaaronteeee an OAL of 2.800" wil have at least a caliber in the neck. :what: :D
 
post script: 190's a bit heavy for a 308Win, but you might be entertained in making it work.

Check here for a published load that is under Sierra's Max for IMR4064:

http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html

(My QuickLoad says go no higher, and start even lower)

RL17 & Ramshot Big Game will work well

IMR4895
H380
IMR4320
will also work fine, though at slighter lesser velocities
 
Crimp for auto loaders.?

Do you apply a slight taper crimp for an auto loader like a M1A in .308.?? I load 168 grn HPBT for it and apply a light taper crimp. Is this recommended or not.?
 
This FR8 is a bolt action 8mm Mauser action, which uses a Cetme (HK) G-3 7.62 barrel and HK sights. Let's not waste time on the old "7.62 versus .308". The CUP/Saami extra 10,000 psi conversion factor leaves them at a very similar pressure and the Win. .308 field gauge test was perfect.......

MeHavey: You commented about possibly "a caliber in the neck" with the heavier bullets. I don't remember why crimping is sometimes done, but my basic seating should be good enough for plinking.

Update:
These scales must have malfunctioned earlier when they once showed 194.x grains, with no variation.
The bullets now indicate...................................................... 170, a couple at 169.6 grains. I've now checked this weight three times.
My friend had told me that they were about 170.
 
Last edited:
Load a bullet at the max OAL in an unprimed/no powder case, mark the bullet with a black marker around the ogive of the bullet. See how the dummy round fits in the chamber. Will the bolt close ? After extracting, see if there are any rifling marks on the bullet and it's the same OAL. If the bolt closes fine and no rifling marks, then the max OAL works for your gun. If "no" for either of these tests, seat the bullet a little deeper and try again.
 
I don't/won't use any rifle bullets with grooves in them. They don't serve any purpose for me, and they can only negatively influence performance.
 
If your loading for a bolt action it isn't necessary or even advisable to crimp. Crimping a bottle neck is for many just another area for something to go wrong. We often see where someone is having neck tension issues, like the bullet will spin in the neck once seated and crimped. More often than not this is the result of trying to put a crimp on the mouth and resulted in distortion of the neck and even the shoulder.
A crimp can be effectively used, there is no problem in this respect, but it can give a new guy all kinds of problems while trying to find the sweet spot, when the crimp isn't necessary in the first place.
When my high powered rifle brass has expired it will begin to separate, rather than loose neck tension. In fact I've never had a case loose neck tension over the course of it's life span.
 
I have a remington 700 (who doesn't!) and reload using Sierra 175 grain matchkings. I stick a loose bullet in shell, load into rifle and it seats the bullet until it touches the lands. I measure this using the ogive attachment to my calipers. Then I set my seating die to give me the jump I want. No crimp as there is no cannulere. Since I jump my rounds close, I can only load one at a time but I am okay with that.
 
Holystone, your 700 must have been a factory freak. I can't find the lands in my R700 in .308 even with the 175 gr SMK or 168 gr SMKs. Right now I load to magazine length for the AI magazines which is like 2.815" and the grouping sizes are incredible for a sport profile barrel.
 
Wow, you can't get to the lands on a 700? I have a good collection of 700s and other high powered rifle that I load for, I always seat to just a few thousandths off the lands with no problem. if your having problems getting to the lands, you might have the rifle looked at to see if there is some substantial throat errosion going on?
 
I can't find the lands in my R700 in .308 ...
Click to expand...

Have you ever determined a true distance-to-lands w/ the 168/175 SMKs?
(...even via the basic cleaning rod method?)
 
"...Why?..." Lever actions can bash the ammo in the mag tube back and forth under recoil and move the bullet. Lever actions require full length resizing too.
"...Why was this ammo discounted..." Federal American Eagle and Winchester White Box brands are both lower end brands. Not bad stuff, just lower end. Not having a printed box makes a huge difference in the cost of manufacturing too.
 
"...Why?..." Lever actions can bash the ammo in the mag tube back and forth under recoil and move the bullet. Lever actions require full length resizing too.
Click to expand...
Not all Lever actions have 'tubes'. Of the two lever action 308's I hunt with, my Win Model 88 has a removable magazine and the Savage has a box type just like my bolt actions. So full lenght resizng - yes, but why crimp?
 
My remmy 700 sps 308 has a long throat, like all remmy's do, so I've been loading my Nosler 168 hpbt rounds at 2.830-2.840", haven't had any problems. I'm sure I could go longer, but that's a good bit beyond the book max col as it is.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

D
  • Locked
Can .308 bullets be used for 7.62x39?
Replies
14
Views
9K
distra
D
H
  • Locked
My .308 bullets wont seat?
Replies
8
Views
2K
jenrob
J
T
  • Locked
7.62x54R, Crushed Cases, Wasted Powder, and Four Letter Words
2
Replies
29
Views
2K
NCsmitty
N
H
  • Locked
Bullet seating and crimp grooves
Replies
2
Views
408
Walkalong
Walkalong
M
  • Locked
Seating .312 Deforms Case Neck
Replies
2
Views
708
Ghosth
G
Back
Top