Shooting my AR a little left - what am I doing wrong?

Status
Not open for further replies.
I

IMtheNRA

Member
Joined
Dec 24, 2002
Messages
1,372
I have a strange problem and I can't figure out how to correct my shooting.

The equipment used is a circa-1994 Colt HBAR Match; 20" free-floated original Colt 1/7 barrel; "NM"-marked rear sight of unknown manufacturer, thin front sight post, JP trigger around 3.5 lbs. I usually shoot at 100 and 200 yards. Iron sights only, no scope, from a sandbag. The NM rear sight has smaller than normal apertures - both the 0-2 aperture and the tiny one.

Using the 0-2 aperture, I had to dial in about 3 inches of right windage in order to center my groups (usually 2.5" x 2.5" 20-rd groups with 55-gr bulk Hornady bullets at 100 yards).

When other people shoot this rifle, their groups shift about 3 inches to the right, so I know it is not the rifle with a left-shooting bias, but there is a problem with my technique for which I had to compensate with all the right windage adjustment.

When I use the tiny aperture, the groups shift about 3 inches to the right due to the right windage that I dialed into the sight. When I flip up the 0-2 aperture, I get centered groups at 100 and 200 yards.

To make matters more strange, when I shot at very close range using the 0-2 aperture at 25 yards, my groups shifted right. So, it seems that whatever I'm doing wrong, I'm only doing it when shooting 100 and 200 yards :(

So, what do you think I'm doing wrong to cause me to shoot left with the 0-2 aperture, and why am I not doing something wrong when I use the tiny aperture? Any ideas?
 
I think you're sighting in with the wrong aperture. Sight in with the small aperture, and the large one will be what it will be. I think you're putting your head in the wrong place left to right, and the smaller hole will help orient you.

Also, you are confusing the zero of the sights, with their intended function. The 0-2 sight is supposedly to be zeroed at 200....it's not supposed to be USED at that range. Use the smaller aperture for everything you can use it for. If you don't have the time to acquire a target with the smaller aperture, use the larger one. If it's a moving target up close, use the larger one. The gun was designed to use the peep sight in the rear, the larger, more ghost ring type sight is for close up, fast, moving encounters.

Read how to zero an M16 somewhere and do what it says. It will involve raising and lowering the front post at 25 yards, and maybe a little windage tweaking in back, using the elevation set to Z and the small aperture.

I find my AR likes the Z setting up close, bottomed out at 300/600 for 100 yards shooting, then advancing on 1 notch past z for 200, and 2 notches past for 300. Your results may vary, but the short version is, leave that big ring down and don't use it except for zeroing coke cans at 15 yards.
 
Kliegl, it sounds like I have two problems - zeroing in with the wrong apperture, and incorrect head placement.

I'll re-zero with the tiny aperture tomorrow because I don't shoot left when I use it. Until now, I used the larger aperture most of the time because on this NM sight, the apertures are much smaller than standard AR sights. The tiny aperture offers a sight picture that is pretty dim on all but the most sunny days.

The elevation wheel has no markings on it - again, this is probably due to it being a NM sight with 1/8 MOA adjustment clicks - so I think that standard AR zeroing procedures don't exactly apply to this rifle/sight combination.
 
A common problem I've seen is holding the gun at an angle instead of vertical. The taller sight on an AR can really create a problem in this area.
 
The tilt problem would really show with another shooter and being low or high to the opposite side.
 
Do you have changable apertures? I have NM sights with 3 different apertures for my AR. I will agree the smallest aperture is hard to see through on all but the brightest days. This is also the one I shoot the best with. If the day is over cast I switch to the middle aperture. I have yet to use the largest aperture which is pretty close to a normal small aperture flip sights. Since my sights are pinned, I don't have the large flip up aperture you have. Like others have stated it would be used with fast moving targets and low light.
 
First, check your natural point of aim. Make sure you aren't muscling the thing to the right for some reason by closing your eyes, relaxing, and opening them and seeing if you're lined up on target still or if you've drifted left. I'd be surprised if this was the case shooting off a sandbag, but its the obvious place to start.

If your close range groups are to the right, and your long range groups are to the left, I'd check to see if you're canting the rifle to the left. I wouldn't expect to see as much left bias as you're reporting at those distances, but its another good thing to check.

Additionally, I'd check your shoulder to stock contact. Your torso may be too twisted with the rifle recoiling off your shoulder. Try to get more squared up behind the buttstock and see if that changes your POI.

Do you have an astigmatism that could be affecting your sight picture? Are you putting a lot of pressure on the cheek rest? Are you flinching with your shoulder at the moment the shot breaks? Thats all I can think of...
 
I would say that this demonstrates why you want to zero your irons for how you hold the rifle and your eye position. As long as you're consistent, what does it really matter?
 
The rifle should be zeroed for its primary shooter. You would expect that some other people, shooting the same rifle, would not find the rifle perfectly "on" for them.
 
If you are shooting 2.5 inch groups at 100 yards with iron sights set on the wide aperture, you have no problems.

Sight it in for yourself with the small aperture and let it be.
 
Well - I you guys are correct. I was rolling the rifle a little left while shooting at 100 or 200 yards.

Testing my technique at home (without shooting) today, I closed my eyes and got into a a very relaxed, comfortable shooting position just as I would if I were to shoot 100 or 200 yards. It turns out, my shooting hand and cheek weld are both a little more comfortable when the rifle is rolled left. It also seems to fit my shoulder more snugly, so no wonder I was subconciously canting the rifle all this time.

I dialed the windage all the way back to neutral and I'll re-zero the rifle this weekend, while keeping a close eye on my technique. I'll also use the teeny-tiny little aperture instead of the 0-2. I might temporarily glue a bubble to the carry handle as a short term training aid to make sure I don't slip back into this bad habit.

Edited to add: It just occured to me why I sometimes suspected that the right side of the front sight post was taller than the left side... When I rolled the rifle left, it made the right side of the post rise above the left side. I can't believe I did not realize what was really happening!

(The NM-marked rear sight does not have interchangeable apertures - just these two, which are significantly smaller than the standard apertures)

A HUGE "THANK YOU" TO ALL WHO TOOK TIME TO OFFER SUGGESTIONS!!! :)
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

G
  • Locked
AR15 sighting problem
Replies
3
Views
333
henschman
H
S
  • Locked
Shooting straight with windage adjustments
Replies
18
Views
466
JDGray
J
Z
  • Locked
Adjusting sights on a Mini 14?
Replies
3
Views
410
Art Eatman
A
P
  • Locked
AR sight?
Replies
4
Views
498
Pony Express
P
S
  • Locked
Sighting in my new rifle with Williams FP peep sights
Replies
7
Views
2K
Silver Bullet
S
Back
Top