No Guns allowed at Buffalo Wild Wings

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As has been stated by many, different BWW locations have different rules depending on whether they're franchise or corporate owned. The local one that I go to a couple times a week has no problem with CCW and in fact many of the regulars, like myself, sit at the bar and talk about our guns and what we like to carry, etc.

As for the 30.06 signs, if a place has a no gun sign, and it's not 30.06, I ignore it and I certainly don't talk to the manager about it. Why give them ideas on how to legally prevent me from carrying? If I don't like their attitude about guns I don't spend money there. But I certainly don't tell them how to make their signs legally enforceable. I save that bit of knowledge for debates with police in the event that I'm made and the PD are called.

Oh and as for the 2nd ammendment. I'm all about it. I love the 2nd ammendment. But I'm also really in favor of the rights of private property owners (like restaurants, and homeowners). So I guess if a business doesn't want me to carry there, then that's their right, and it's mine to spend money elsewhere.
 
Went to the Burlington, Ia BBW with no signs posted and management knows I'm ccw. We go there about once a month and never had any problems.
 
I've never noticed a sign at our BW3's. Then again I've never looked for it and will continue to carry as I go to pick up our food. If they find out I'm carrying and want me to leave, so be it. Then we'll have the conversation. If we eat in, I'm usually having a beer and therefore not carrying anyway.
 
so who says you have to tell them you have a gun?

What are they gonna do besides asking you to leave or go put your gun in the car.

What LAWS have you broken if you carry on private property which states no guns allowed?

Maybe I'm ignorant on the subject but to me its no more than, 'No shirts, no shoes, NO SERVICE!' type of thing.
 
HammerheadSSN663 said:
What LAWS have you broken if you carry on private property which states no guns allowed?

Maybe I'm ignorant on the subject but to me its no more than, 'No shirts, no shoes, NO SERVICE!' type of thing.
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In some states, possibly including yours, that sign does carry the weight of law. I shake my head at those states, but that's the law.
 
What LAWS have you broken if you carry on private property which states no guns allowed?
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In Texas, Section 30.06 of the Penal Code (normally I can't remember other state's laws, but 30.06 is hard to forget - bit of irony in the numbering there :)).

In South Carolina, its Section 23-31-220 Item (2):

Nothing contained in this article shall in any way be construed to limit, diminish, or otherwise infringe upon:

(2) the right of a private property owner or person in legal possession or control to allow or prohibit the carrying of a concealable weapon upon his premises.

The posting by the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control of a sign stating “No Concealable Weapons Allowed” shall constitute notice to a person holding a permit issued pursuant to this article that the employer, owner, or person in legal possession or control requests that concealable weapons not be brought upon the premises or into the work place. A person who brings a concealable weapon onto the premises or work place in violation of the provisions of this paragraph may be charged with a violation of Section 16-11-620. In addition to the penalties provided in Section 16-11-620, a person convicted of a second or subsequent violation of the provisions of this paragraph must have his permit revoked for a period of one year. The prohibition contained in this section does not apply to persons specified in Section 16-23-20, item (1).

(the exception mentioned in 16-23-20(1) is for law enforcement officers)

There are several other states where the signs have legal weight. Don't assume that you can wink and nod your way out of such a situation without consulting your local laws - or if you're travelling out of state - the concealed carry laws of the state you're in.
 
I had not noticed the sign at my friendly BWW before, so stopped and looked for it today. The sign stated it was by order of the Texas Liquor Commission, did not see the 30.06 on it. Told the manager I would not be back.
 
tekarra: ....The sign stated it was by order of the Texas Liquor Commission, did not see the 30.06 on it. Told the manager I would not be back.
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Any idea what sign you actually looked at?:scrutiny:

1. There's no such entity as the "Texas Liquor Commission"
2. There IS a Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission that dictates what signs a bar/restaurant must post.
3. If the restaurant has a 51% sign CHL holders cannot legally carry there.
4. In your CHL class they should have covered what signs apply to Texas CHL holders and which ones do not.

I have an ever increasing feeling no one pays attention during their CHL class. Which is pretty darned scary.



.
 
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A valid 30.06 sign in texas contains the following information.
copeid from:

http://www.txdps.state.tx.us/administration/crime_records/chl/chlssign.htm

PROHIBITING HANDGUNS IN A BUSINESS
OR OTHER ENTITY


"PURSUANT TO SECTION 30.06, PENAL CODE (TRESPASS BY HOLDER OF A LICENSE TO CARRY A CONCEALED HANDGUN) A PERSON LICENSED UNDER SUBCHAPTER H, CHAPTER 411, GOVERNMENT CODE (CONCEALED HANDGUN LAW), MAY NOT ENTER THIS PROPERTY WITH A CONCEALED HANDGUN."


"CONFORME A LA SECCIÓN 30.06 DEL CÔDIGO PENAL (TRASPASAR PORTANDO ARMAS DE FUEGO) PERSONAS CON LICENCIA BAJO DEL SUB-CAPITULO H, CAPITULO 411, CODIGO DE GOBIERNO (LEY DE PORTAR ARMAS), NO DEBEN ENTRAR A ESTA PROPIEDAD PORTANDO UN ARMA DE FUEGO."


this sign and a 51% sign are the two signs that you must look for before entering into an establishment in Texas.
 
and the 51% sign that we must pay attention to.

This can be in a place such as bw3 - and even the Olive garden - INSIDE before entering the bar area. Places like "No Frills" which is a decent place for food, family, and a bar - you can not enter the bar area as there is a 51% sign before going into the bar - but you can enjoy the place as long as you do not cross that line.

IF this sign in at the door of the establishment you can not enter.
 

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so who says you have to tell them you have a gun?

What are they gonna do besides asking you to leave or go put your gun in the car.

What LAWS have you broken if you carry on private property which states no guns allowed?

Maybe I'm ignorant on the subject but to me its no more than, 'No shirts, no shoes, NO SERVICE!' type of thing.
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COSTCO shooting in LV, NV comes to mind:what:

http://www.lvrj.com/news/slaying-of-army-veteran-shocks-friends-98223884.html

Be very careful out there:uhoh:
 
There was a man in the local Hannafords recently that was open carrying and the manager told him that it was against store policy. The man politely explained to him that in Vermont he could open carry without a permit and that since there was no sign the manager could not make him leave the store.
Anyways good luck wit BWW.
 
In this very liberal part of Washington state I used to frequent a small restaurant that had the official state "no handguns" sign for bars in it right in front of the cash register. This sign did not apply since the restaurant had no defined bar area where minors are not allowed, although they do serve beer. I pointed out, once, to the cashier that the sign was not valid and she, of course, looked at me blankly. I hadn't been there since but walked past the other day and saw through the window that the sign was gone. Maybe I'll eat there again!
 
There was a man in the local Hannafords recently that was open carrying and the manager told him that it was against store policy. The man politely explained to him that in Vermont he could open carry without a permit and that since there was no sign the manager could not make him leave the store.
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That's kind of ballsy and possibly ignorant. I don't know the law in Vermont but I'd be very surprised if the manager DIDN'T have the right to escort him out of the store. My experience is that private property rights generally trump gun rights.
 
The guy may have been wrong but as far as I know the store does have to have a sign state that not guns are allowed. Although if it had been me I would told the manager that I would no longer shop there if they did not allow concealed or open carry and that a lot of people would take their business else where.
 
I did a bit of research in law review articles and asked attorneys. No article or lawyer suggested that you could sue for not being allowed to carry and were injured in a crime. Sounds good but doesn't seem to be a possible doctrine for suit for legal reasons or finding an attorney who would take it as a case.
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I agree. It is the legal right of the property owner to decide if they want weapons on their property. They can't be held responsible for the ILLEGAL actions of another person.

I support property owners rights and I support someone's right to say they don't want weapons on their property. I equally support our rights to not do business with them. If we show some unity when these types of things happen most businesses will change their policy rather than go out of business or they will go out of business and someone more friendly to our rights will take their place.

The only place I don't agree with the property owner argument is in places like malls. They are more public in nature and each store is under ownership of different people. If a restaurant in a mall is CCW friendly they should be able to decide on their own what they allow on their property.
 
One caveat to my statement. I do believe, also, that if you open your property to the public and ask them NOT to have the means to defend themselves then the obligation should be on YOU to provide security for the people you give access to your property. If you do not supply security then you should allow them the right to secure themselves.
 
I was told if a place of buisness has the no concealed carry sign and you leave your gun in the car and get hurt during a robbery of that place then you can sue them. Since they've told a law abiding cwp holder they must leave their gun in the car that they assume the responsibility of keeping you safe, while your there. Is this true or was I misinformed?
 
As a fellow Texan, I will ask you to just please keep your mouth shut.

There are only 3 signs that mean anything to a CHL holder, the 30.06 sign and the two signs issued by TABC to places that serve alcohol. The blue sign that says "The unlicensed possession of a firearm" means go right on in. The other two signs mean leave. It is of passing interest how few bars seem to even post the big red 51% sign in the correct place.

Any other sign should be ignored by CHL holders, they do not pertain to us in any way. Their only purpose is to remind those illegally carrying concealed that they should not have weapons at that location. A CHL holder is not trespassing or violating Texas law in any way by ignoring and walking right past these signs. Concealed is concealed.

There is certainly no need to educate managers or store owners on how to make a legal sign and this should be avoided at all costs. Do you really want to see a valid 30.06 signs popping up because you have provoked people into doing the research to figure out how to make a legal sign?

NOTE: This post specifically applies to the state of TX, regardless, there is no need in any state to educate anti gun establishments on how to make legally valid signage.
 
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I was told if a place of buisness has the no concealed carry sign and you leave your gun in the car and get hurt during a robbery of that place then you can sue them. Since they've told a law abiding cwp holder they must leave their gun in the car that they assume the responsibility of keeping you safe, while your there. Is this true or was I misinformed?
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You can bring suit against anyone for just about anything. The question is whether or not you can WIN that suit ;).

My gut feeling is that as angry as these signs might make us feel, you legally have no leg to stand on in such a suit. If the state grants them the power to disallow weapons on their property they're operating within the bounds of the law and exercising that doesn't mean that they're guaranteeing your safety.
 
android said:
As a fellow Texan, I will ask you to just please keep your mouth shut.

There are only 3 signs that mean anything to a CHL holder, the 30.06 sign and the two signs issued by TABC to places that serve alcohol. The blue sign that says "The unlicensed possession of a firearm" means go right on in. The other two signs mean leave. It is of passing interest how few bars seem to even post the big red 51% sign in the correct place.

Any other sign should be ignored by CHL holders, they do not pertain to us in any way. Their only purpose is to remind those illegally carrying concealed that they should not have weapons at that location. A CHL holder is not trespassing or violating Texas law in any way by ignoring and walking right past these signs. Concealed is concealed.

There is certainly no need to educate managers or store owners on how to make a legal sign and this should be avoided at all costs. Do you really want to see a valid 30.06 signs popping up because you have provoked people into doing the research to figure out how to make a legal sign?

NOTE: This post specifically applies to the state of TX, regardless, there is no need in any state to educate anti gun establishments on how to make legally valid signage.
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Keeping quiet IS a legit solution, and you make good points

However, these restaurants do count on our patronage to survive.


Businesses need to hear why we dont come back.
 
thefamcnaj said:
I was told if a place of buisness has the no concealed carry sign and you leave your gun in the car and get hurt during a robbery of that place then you can sue them. Since they've told a law abiding cwp holder they must leave their gun in the car that they assume the responsibility of keeping you safe, while your there. Is this true or was I misinformed?
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You can try and sue for anything. Seems you would have made the choice to disarm and enter as opposed to turning the other way. Your SD is up to you. I don't think anyone could reasonably believe that they will be protected in a place that clearly doesn't have armed guards for your security. You'd lose in court, badly.
 
I was told if a place of buisness has the no concealed carry sign and you leave your gun in the car and get hurt during a robbery of that place then you can sue them. Since they've told a law abiding cwp holder they must leave their gun in the car that they assume the responsibility of keeping you safe, while your there. Is this true or was I misinformed?
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As I recall there was a SCOTUS case out of D.C. many years ago in which the local PD were sued for not protecting citizens who were being assaulted and had called 911 (if anyone remembers the case help me out here please). The court ruled that police had no legal obligation to protect anyone. I'd say that if the courts won't hold police responsible for failing to protect us from criminals then they probably won't hold a private property owner liable either. Unless of course the private property owner was an accomplice to the crime in which case he'll be charged as an accessory and a civil suit would probably be an easy case to win.
 
There's nothing in the legal literature suggesting that a lawsuit for not being able to carry will be successful. I did a legal data base search and found several review articles that indicated the biggest liability risk is seen to be if you let people carry. Not if you don't.

I also asked gun friendly lawyers who say:

1. You would have to take the case on contingency for perhaps little gain. The amounts may not be worth it for an individual death. Many states limit punitive damages so the big bucks aren't there. Not a class action. So maybe you could get a zealot lawyer to fight the fight.

2. It would take a very long time. A company has the resources to stall you for quite a bit. Look at big judgements that are overturned.

3. The legal doctrine sounds good to nonlawyers and on the Internet but the lawyers quoting cases indicate that the responsibility is on the direct actor - the crook. The store or business is too remote. They cannot be responsible for the actions of every actor UNLESS they have knowledge of an imminent and clearly predictable threat. That a BG may come in is not direct enough. The details of remoteness are found in the law. I ain't a lawyer.
 
I don't care. They have the right to run their business as they see fit. I have the right to either comply with their rules on their property or not do business with them. Next thing you know, I can't prohibit smokers in my home because their rights trump my rights as a property owner. When I see a 30.06 sign, I make a mental note not to scare them with my presence or reward them with my money.
 
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