Clean before or after sizing

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I tumble the empty cases, load, and, anything that required lube gets tumbled again. There is no problem cleaning loaded ammo in a vibrator tumbler.
 
There is no problem cleaning loaded ammo in a vibrator tumbler.

That's PROBABLY true, but the possibility has been brought up in the past that if the powder inside the round shakes enough to act as a self abrasive and go to a finer consistency, then you may increase the burn rate and get higher pressures.
 
but the possibility has been brought up in the past that if the powder inside the round shakes enough to act as a self abrasive and go to a finer consistency, then you may increase the burn rate and get higher pressures.
Somebody recently posted here that they had tested that theory via tumbling ammo over differing times and then shooting over a chrony to find velocity deltas associated with higher pressures. IIRC, their data showed no velocity increases over several hours of tumbling.

I'll try to dig up the post.

--

Ah - here 'tis some references:

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=489229

http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=6179334&postcount=73
 
That's PROBABLY true, but the possibility has been brought up in the past that if the powder inside the round shakes enough to act as a self abrasive and go to a finer consistency, then you may increase the burn rate and get higher pressures.

If that were the case, military ammo would be next to useless.

Lets use some common sense regarding this.
 
Rifle brass I tumble, resize, trim and tumble again to remove sizing lube. I hand prime all of my rifle brass, as much of what U use is mil. I use 10/14 grit corn cob that I purchase from a local sand blasting supply house. Runs about $20/50#, and use Nufinish when I polish after loading.
I tumble hand gun brass first, then load and polish. A quick tumble after loading leaves a pretty, smooth cartridge.
 
I definitely see a potential benefit of decapping/sizing first, for pistol brass, as long as the brass isn't too dirty.

For steel rifle dies, I learned the hard way that dirty cases can mess up your dies. My practically brand new 223 dies leave scratches all around the case neck. They don't seem to cause any harm other than cosmetic, but it is a bummer. I tumbled all my brass before sizing, but apparently didn't do quite a good enough job.
 
I clean first, then resize/deprime, prime, load and tumble again. The tumbling of the loaded rounds doesn't actually take very long. A good 30 minutes and they're fine.
 
I like your style. A little powder residue never hurt anyone.

I guess this is where you start to see who reloads to shoot and who shoots to reload. At least for handgun loads. Rifle is a different animal.
I was talking about rifle. I do the same with handgun. I enjoy loading but I don't have much time for it & I rather be shooting then cleaning brass. If by some chance I can ware out those really hard dies then they have already paid there self off.

I have never heard of anyone able to ware on out though.
 
How does one spend much time cleaning brass, I toss mine in a tumbler and let it do its thing while I'm in bed asleep.

Maybe I'm just good at multi tasking.
 
My system is good for me as I admit I am lazy and this is the easiest way to get 'er done.

I tumble about 15-30 minutes first when I get the brass home to remove crud.
I size with the decapping pin removed and bell the mouth if needed. No need to pick the media out of primer pockets this way.
I tumble until the desired cleanliness/shine is reached. ** I like a mirror.
I decap using a universal decapping die.
I prime and store until needed.

Now I just purchased a used Thumlers tumbler for cheap and ordered some SS media. This may change how I do this if what I read is true.:D
 
Tumbling loaded ammunition is a DANGEROUS thing.
Not because a bullet may ignite the primer of another round in the tumbler.
Powders are milled to a specific size and shape then sometimes coated with inhibitors to achieve a specific burn rate. When powders are tumbled the size and shape of the individual grains breaks down into smaller shapes and sizes resulting in a faster burn rate with more pressure and power being released faster when ignited!
Tumbling loaded ammunition changes the powder load from one known thing to another unknown thing! The load grain weight will remain the same but the surface area will dramatically increase as will the burn rate.
This is how re-loaders and guns get hurt! Don't do it!
 
Was this tested on not-crimped rifle brass with say 50-60% density and double base extruded/stick powders? That is where I would be concerned.

Also, not only should brass be tumbled before resizing due to carbon residue on the end of brass, which can scratch dies or chambers, it is important to clean the walls of dies to remove any possible residual Lubricants or obstructions that may scratch brass. It is also best to remove lubricant because you don't want that gummy crud in your chambers. This is just what I've been told and assume from my experiences.
 
Tumbling loaded ammunition is a DANGEROUS thing.
Not because a bullet may ignite the primer of another round in the tumbler.
Powders are milled to a specific size and shape then sometimes coated with inhibitors to achieve a specific burn rate. When powders are tumbled the size and shape of the individual grains breaks down into smaller shapes and sizes resulting in a faster burn rate with more pressure and power being released faster when ignited!
Tumbling loaded ammunition changes the powder load from one known thing to another unknown thing! The load grain weight will remain the same but the surface area will dramatically increase as will the burn rate.
This is how re-loaders and guns get hurt! Don't do it!

Sorry Ted, you need to do more research before you post something as gospel.

This is just what I've been told and assume from my experiences.

Tommy, old rule, never, ever assume anything.
 
"This is just what I've been told and assume from my experiences."

How do you preach something that all you know is what you have read.

I haven't tested it to say that it is wrong but It just doesn't seem likley enough for me to consider.

How does one spend much time cleaning brass, I toss mine in a tumbler and let it do its thing while I'm in bed asleep.

Maybe I'm just good at multi tasking.
JC

If that was at my comment then this is my answer: It takes time to take the top off the tumbler, dump brass in, plug in, add polish, pick brass back out & empty media from the brass. When time is hard to come by then every second is valuable.
 
Wasn't necessarly ment for you kingmt, just for folks in general. I'm retired now but I have never had my life that crowded where seconds counted, I like the laid back lifestyle.
 
I like the laid back also & hope to get back there soon but for now I chose to spend these few seconds talking to you instead of cleaning brass.

I do clean it when it starts looking dingy or if it's new to me but my brass just doesn't get dirty. I have about 10 loads on my rifle brass since the last tumble & my pistol brass doesn't get used that often maybe 2 loads since the last tumble.

New to me brass might even get washed depending on how dirty it is.
 
I like the laid back also & hope to get back there soon but for now I chose to spend these few seconds talking to you instead of cleaning brass.

HAHA, hey I liked that come back, very good! Sounds like you have a good sense of humor, and believe me this world needs more of it.

Best to you and yours this Sunday
jcwit
 
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