The Judge as hunting back up?

My Judge Public defender is loaded with 2 winchester PD 410 rounds, 1 45 LCHP. and then 1 more each of the PD 410 and 45 LC for self defense. Taking it to Alaska as a back up but it will be loaded with 225 hardcast wad cutters from Buffalo Bore.

PS forget the 410 slug, a 45 LC has more lead and more power.

And for those who want to bad mouth the 410 round from a Judge, I suggest you don't get in front of mine. As a point and shoot against a bad guy coming out of the dark, the winchester PD rounds have 3 38cal disks and 10 or 12 #4's with a spread about the size of a basket ball at 10 to 15 feet. It may not kill the bad guy, but he will instantly grasp that coming at you was a really bad idea. The 45HP in the 3d chamber will finish the deal if necessary.

Protection against what? A wild flock of rabid Dove? It probably wouldn't even do much good against that.

bassdogs said:

My Judge Public defender is loaded with 2 winchester PD 410 rounds, 1 45 LCHP. and then 1 more each of the PD 410 and 45 LC for self defense. Taking it to Alaska as a back up but it will be loaded with 225 hardcast wad cutters from Buffalo Bore.

PS forget the 410 slug, a 45 LC has more lead and more power.

And for those who want to bad mouth the 410 round from a Judge, I suggest you don't get in front of mine. As a point and shoot against a bad guy coming out of the dark, the winchester PD rounds have 3 38cal disks and 10 or 12 #4's with a spread about the size of a basket ball at 10 to 15 feet. It may not kill the bad guy, but he will instantly grasp that coming at you was a really bad idea. The 45HP in the 3d chamber will finish the deal if necessary.

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And?

If you don't incapacitate the attacker what's to stop him from killing you? What if he is armed with a firearm that's actually useful for defensive purposes and shoots you with a round that actually performs well? What if he has a knife and cuts you open from head to toe? Or what if he even has a pointed stick? Yeah, when you show him you're serious that will surely stop him.

Gerring pretty far from the original quesiton about a "walking defence weapon in the bear,hog, wild cat, etc infested area that I hunt on."

And we really don't need to chase the Judge/.410 "defense" gun argument down the rabbit hole one more time, do we?

oldwheelieguy... are there really bears in the Pensacola area?

ETA #1: Disregard... looked it up and, sure enough, there are. I woodnathunkit.

ETA #2: Personally, I don't see why a Judge wouldn't be a viable solution.

Sam 1911 said:

I still have a difficult time picturing how the scenario unfolds where shooting the snake is really all that helpful a response.

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I agree, but we don't really have many aggressive poisonous snakes in PA other than the occasional copperhead. Not sure what southerners might have to deal with.
I do carry a gun while hiking but I don't think the Judge is any better than any other centerfire handgun that's "big enough". Truth is that I'd prefer my .357 to a .410 shotshell from a handgun in almost every single application. If I'm close enough that a snake is really a threat, I'm within handgun shotshell range - so I don't need a load of .410 birdshot. I'd trust a well placed round of .357 over a .410 slug or a load of .410 000 buck. I'd say if you're serious about carrying he Judge for real back up type use, at least load four of the five chambers with .45 Colt ammo - even lighter .45 loadings are packing more wallop than a .410 slug.

OK, well ... since .410 isn't even that great for birds what makes it a viable solution to larger, more complex and dangerous animals with thicker hides and solid bones?

Sam1911 said:

Gerring pretty far from the original quesiton about a "walking defence weapon in the bear,hog, wild cat, etc infested area that I hunt on."

And we really don't need to chase the Judge/.410 "defense" gun argument down the rabbit hole one more time, do we?

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I forgot to add, it astonishes me people who carry a firearm for any kind of defense would not take the time to educate themselves about the implications of carrying that firearm and how to properly use, and make the best use of it. Clearly anyone who believes shotshell that won't come close to adequately reaching the FBI minimum standards of penetration is a good choice for anything except soda cans has taken leave of their senses.

I cannot believe people would consciously make such poor choices. Then again, given my chosen profession, I should easily believe it. The FBI study on handgun ballistic effectiveness is available on the internet and it would behoove some individuals to read it.

.45FMJoe... you apparently misread the OP. He's using a mix of ammunition.

.45FMJoe said:

I forgot to add, it astonishes me people who carry a firearm for any kind of defense would not take the time to educate themselves about the implications of carrying that firearm and how to properly use, and make the best use of it. Clearly anyone who believes shotshell that won't come close to adequately reaching the FBI minimum standards of penetration is a good choice for anything except soda cans has taken leave of their senses.

I cannot believe people would consciously make such poor choices. Then again, given my chosen profession, I should easily believe it. The FBI study on handgun ballistic effectiveness is available on the internet and it would behoove some individuals to read it.

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Just for you Joe.

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4550011&postcount=37

bassdogs

My Judge Public defender is loaded with 2 winchester PD 410 rounds, 1 45 LCHP. and then 1 more each of the PD 410 and 45 LC for self defense. Taking it to Alaska as a back up but it will be loaded with 225 hardcast wad cutters from Buffalo Bore.

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The PDX .410 round is a gimmick and will not get more than 9-9.5" of penetration. The Fed 000 buck .410 is the only suitable self defense round out there and it's still limited to 10 maybe 12 yards. When you get farther out than that the pellets no longer work together. After that you need a .45 colt. But even most of them don't do well because of the short barrel and large effective free-bore. They don't get enough velocity to expand reliably. PDX1 .45 colt load is designed for it and appears to expand, at least from wet pack test I've seen. I would think critical defense would work, but I've not seen any tests.

The judge won't help against anything big enough to pose an actual threat (save for venomous snakes).

I recommend a .357, you can always just carry a few rounds of snake shot in your pocket.

So neither .45LC nor .410 #00 buckshot are potent enough?

I recommend a .357, you can always just carry a few rounds of snake shot in your pocket.

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or aim low w your regular carry ammo

The "tester" with the jello didn't say how far away he was when he shot it. Judging (dang, I'm "punny!") by the temporary wound channel being so concentrated, he was very, very close. Take the shot from 10-20 feet, I'd bet the outcome would significantly change for the worse.

For longer shots, I'd definitely load it with .45 Colt.

^^^ According to "most" of what I've read 10-15 feet is about the max distance for effectiveness of bird shot (from a Judge) on little critters like snakes and rats and less than 10 feet is better. This is due to the short rifled barrel. Of course, #00 buck and .45LC change the effective range and critter size significantly.

I use 410 #4 shells for snakes in my Judge.
Saturday I got a call from a guy in our lease and he ran across 11 mocassins in one day and one of them was chasing his 4 wheeler as he was backing away from it.
He said his 45 ACP snakeshots were not cycling on hir 45 pistol so he was inquiring abot my Judge.
And yes we got Bears in North Florida lots of them, I was on a Hunting lease a couple years ago next to a creek called Bear creek go figure.

CMC said:

...ran across 11 mocassins in one day and one of them was chasing his 4 wheeler as he was backing away from it.

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There's something different about some species like Water Mocassins. Those are often very territorial, bold, and aggressive... both on land and in the water.

Mr 45 - Clearly you don't like the Judge, so there is very little chance you will ever be on the "sending" end of one. Again I suggest that you really don't want to be on the receiving end of either the PDX round or the 45 HP. Complaining about shots beyond 10 yards as being not effective, its clear that the Judge is not designed for anything other than close in self defense. Almost all self defense situations place the BG in side of 10 feet and a large majority are less than 5 feet.

Trust me the BG won't be taking aim after you hit him with 2 PDX rounds [its pretty hard to miss at that range]. What to do if they don't kill him???? That's why #3 is a 45LChp.

The Judge is not what you want to take to a gunfight. It is however very effective for what it is designed for. It is particularly effective for the infrequent shooter who wants a lethal SD weapon for the car or purse.

All this talk about shooting doves, barn swallows, and sea gulls is pretty funny. I bet your hit rate with a flushing dove wouldn't make many record books with your 1911 either.

Shaping up the Judges shot-pattern.

How effective would a .410 choke system be for the various barrel-lengths of the Judge? DAO

daorhgih said:

How effective would a .410 choke system be for the various barrel-lengths of the Judge? DAO

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There's a guy on thefiringline that did this. He's an Alaskan gunsmith and did it for the heck of it. Said it worked well. If I can find it I'll post a link. Guys name is WildAlaska, not sure if that's the right spelling or not.

Edit

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=371463&highlight=judge+410+choke

David E said:

The "tester" with the jello didn't say how far away he was when he shot it. Judging (dang, I'm "punny!") by the temporary wound channel being so concentrated, he was very, very close. Take the shot from 10-20 feet, I'd bet the outcome would significantly change for the worse.

For longer shots, I'd definitely load it with .45 Colt.

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At 7 yard I get about 2-2.5 inch groups with the Fed load. The only thing I've shot with it is a rabbit. The shot was about 7 yard. All pellets penetrated stem to stern and exited. When I need to get rid of a rabbit that thinks my garden is theirs I test a different round each time. So far the total is only 4 rabbits. The Fed .410 round did considerably more damage than a 9mm, .40 S&W, or a .45 acp.

THplanes said:

At 7 yard I get about 2-2.5 inch groups with the Fed load. The only thing I've shoot with it is a rabbit. The shot was about 7 yard. All pellets penetrated stem to stern and exited. When I need to get rid of a rabbit that thinks my garden is theirs I test a different round each time. So far the total is only 4 rabbits. The Fed .410 round did considerably more damage than a 9mm, .40 S&W, or a .45 acp.

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You get 2.5" groups at 7 yards shooting birdshot with a Judge??

Mike1234567 said:

You get 2.5" groups at 7 yards shooting birdshot with a Judge??

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Of course not. The load I'm discussing is the Fed .410 000 buck load.

Go for it Olwheelieguy - Not sure how much of a threat there is where you are from snakes, so I would suggest you forget the 7's and move up to at least 4's. For real varmits I'd go with the buck shot and then forget the slugs and load with 45 LC or LCHP. Want a real heavy punch consider a 225 grain hardcast flat head wad cutter from Buffalo Bore.

Oh and if we come across any doves, we can call the 45 guy to come and save us.