whats wrong with 10mm?

I am thinking about a G29 but think I'll get the G20 instead ... No the 29 ... No 20???? No the ... HELP I'M ON THOUGHT OVER LOAD < and my cap key just got stuck

And a drop-in KKM barrel to shoot HC lead for those times that a furry footed burrower may try to take me home to feed their young while I'm hiking in Mother Nature's bounty!

And a beefier recoil spring to lighten the load too.

And if I don't feel like toting my G26 I may CCW it instead and if I DO need it in a SD situation and I happen to miss my intended BG target then I have a feeling the son-tic shock-wave and muzzle-blast will be enough to give me time to truck my fat a$$ out of there to safety??

The 40 short and wimpy will never be able to have more performance than the 10 mm .
The 10 has more powder capacity and a higher pressure rating.
It is the same as saying the 30 06 can be loaded hotter than the 300 win mag.

^^ 10mm would most probably be untouchable out of a carbine or with heavier bullets. But with a light bullet and fired from a short barrel, the 40 doesn't really give up that much case capacity. Remember, pressure ratings are there for the gun, not the brass. And methinks Clark is well exceeding these feeble, arbitrary limits, anyways. And he never stated what kind of gun he was shooting these superhot 40 handloads out of. For all we know it was a 10mm pistol. Loaded to an OAL of 1.26".

If you wanna talk case capacity, compare .357 magnum to 9mm +P+, using 124/5 grain bullets out of a 2" revolver. You get basically the same velocity, despite a huge difference in case capacity.

Until I've made my own handloads that rupture brass, blow out primers, rip off rims, and blow up guns, I'll just take Clark's word for it.

It is the same as saying the 30 06 can be loaded hotter than the 300 win mag.

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Not quite. Clark pointed out 2 differences between 40 and 10mm brass that have nothing to do with capacity. A better analogy might be saying you could load modern SPP .38 special cases hotter than original .357 magnum cases (with the LPP pockets).... in a suitable .357 magnum revolver. A larger hole in the head of the brass makes it weaker. The LPP case will get stuck in the cylinder at lower pressures than the SPP case.

ammo is scarce and expensive

Na, ammo is pricey and is easier to order on the internet than to find in a store.

SAMMI test are done in a universal barrel dont have nothing to do with a particular firearm.
http://www.saami.org/specifications_and_information/index.cfm
Case capacity for a 10 mm is 24 gr 40 S &W is 19.3 gr that is a big difference.

Sammi Pressure for the 10 mm is 37,500 for the 40 it is 35,000 psi.

Energy for a 200 gr bullet out of a 10 is 700 ft-pounds vs. 392 ft -pounds for the same bullet in a 40 almost double.
No comparison hence the name short & wimpy.
The above are facts and industry standards , dont care what you can do reloading.
If you want to risk the gun blowing in your face trying to get 10 mm performance out of the 40 have at it .

Ok. Point taken. But case capacity and SAAMI pressure specs aren't necessarily the take away points, here. This thread is titled "What's wrong with the 10mm." And the design of the brass is one mark against it.

If you load wimpy ammo for it, then you'll be happy ever after knowing you have a gun that has the potential to be powerful. But if you chase the "near .41 mag performance," your brass will:

A) bulge in a G20, even with an aftermarket barrel, and
B) get loose primer pockets after only a few loadings.

And of course, 10mm brass isn't exactly cheap.

If you shoot factory ammo, then toss the brass, then this isn't a downside. But many people that shoot 10mm also reload for it.

The .38/.357 transitioned to small primers decades ago. There's no good reason for the 10mm to use a LPP.

SAMMI test are done in a universal barrel dont have nothing to do with a particular firearm.

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SAAMI, schmammy. My point is that you load for the gun, not the brass. I can load a .38 special case to .357 pressures and shoot it out of a .357 magnum revolver, safely. When I cut down luger brass to make mak cases, I load them to mak pressures. There are also "Ruger only" 45LC loads made specifically for certain firearms.

I reload 10mm all the time. I do not see any downside to the cartridge. If a barrel chamber from any gun is oversized, send it back. To condemn a cartridge because of poorly machined barrels is wrong. Condemn the barrels. I get lots of loadings from my 10mm cases.

I've been reloading 10mm a long time, and I don't load light. My defense load (that I shoot quite a lot) is slighlty over published data and pushes a 180 grain pill at 1,406 FPS avg. from my S&W 1006, 1,342 from my 3.5" Witness Compact. I've had a few case head separations on brass that was loaded 5 or 6 times, but never a loose primer pocket. IMO, the large primer is a non-issue.

On that note, of the reasons the .40 uses a small primer is that the case head and web are thinner..............

I think that there are too many callibers for the ammo companies to concentrate on a load that is not one of their big sellers, 9, 40, 45.,or even their second tier 38, 357, 44&44 mag. Now we have 380, 327, 32, 25, 41mag, all the euro stuff like for the FN, makarov etc. So the 10 simplly dosen't sell enough to prioritize it in line for R&D. It could have been the next big thing untill the FBI dumped it, and It wasn't for any other reason than their "smaller officers" were having a tough time controllling it and it hurt their little hands. Not because any flaw in the ideology or design of the round.
Female officers just did not like the pounding they were getting, and small framed "non shooters". You don't have to be a gun guy to be an FBI agent, mostlly they are lawyers with guns.

Most shooters are recoil challenged...In that sense the 10mm has same problem as 44 magnum. Personally I enjoy stiff recoil...I know I have a real gun in my hand.

double tap ammo has brought the power of the 10.mm round to new levels. You get the stoping power of a 41.magnum out of there stuff combine that with the mag capacity of the glock 20 or eaa pistols and you have the what i would consider well the best help a man can get out of a pistol. Its hard to find 10.mm ammo at your local gun shop generaly but if you dont mind ording your ammo online and haveing it deliverd theres tone of options even cheaper than dirt sportsmans guide and midway all have at least half a dozon or more 10.mm loads for sale. You can also order directly from the double tap website and they have good prices and the best ammo for 10.mm in my book. I have aglock 20sf and i love it Its the most acureat pistol i own

I say Buffalo Bore > Double Tap. Anybody who has done some real world testing with a chronograph will be a bit hesitant to believe much of anything Double Tap says. But they, it's a lot less expensive so most people are willing to settle for Double Tap since they are still hotter than the mainline stuff

Double Tap has definately had some issues with the facts, substituting bullets (montana gold) for gold dots that are not Gold dots but still selling them as Gold Dots.

Several reports that bullet weights when measured did not = the stated weight.

And rampant chrono speed issues.

That said the vast majority of customers seem satisfied with both the product and the company. And so few ammo makers even make a 10mm round let alone anywhere near a full power load.


Really the bottom line with the 10mm is that it had its chance to be something special, instead it ended up out of favor with LE and with the shooting public at large.

Plenty of factors led to this situation but the vast majority of the shooting world has rejected the 10mm.

The 10MM cartridge, while one of my favorites, has gone the way of the .41 Magnum and has become a niche cartridge. It's sad, but that's the way the shooting world has gone. I own and shoot a Glock 20, S&W 1076, and a S&W 610 revolver. I'd LOVE for the 10MM to come back as a custom shop option for the XD / XD-M, and M&P pistols. However, I just don't see that happening.

The 10mm is still alive and well here in Ohio. My brother and his buddy just bought 3 Glock 20's between them, and after shooting my G29, they are starting to get the itch for that. We also share coffee with a parmedic that is a Glock 20 owner. I have a G20, G29, S&W 1006, and custom Caspian in 10mm. I'm sure we'll add a few more 10mm fans to our cadre of coffee drinkers in the future.

Double Tap has definately had some issues with the facts, substituting bullets (montana gold) for gold dots that are not Gold dots but still selling them as Gold Dots.

Several reports that bullet weights when measured did not = the stated weight.

And rampant chrono speed issues.

That said the vast majority of customers seem satisfied with both the product and the company. And so few ammo makers even make a 10mm round let alone anywhere near a full power load.


Really the bottom line with the 10mm is that it had its chance to be something special, instead it ended up out of favor with LE and with the shooting public at large.

Plenty of factors led to this situation but the vast majority of the shooting world has rejected the 10mm.

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The majority of customers never shoot it through a chronograph, pull bullets to measure their weight or look up reports from those who did. They see the awesomely fast advertised velocities and, combined with a little more recoil than they are maybe used to, just assume they are getting what they are paying for not realizing they are feeding money into a company that seems to do nothing but lie to/deceive it's customers.

I have a FBI turn in which still has the mag release whereas the gun will not fire with the mag out...

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That's called a magazine safety.

The FBI 1076 WILL fire with the magazine out.

10mm Stats I keep adding to. These are mostly G20 with a few out of my Witness 10mm.


DoubleTap hater here just due to them never meeting claims any caliber.

I am a fan of Underwood!

FWIW I ordered Buffalo Bore 200gr FMJ to almost complete out the list of available offerings. I will Chrony it next week and update the sheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...Eh6eGZ3N3hpUU13SXM5cm9pZy16T0E&hl=en_US#gid=0

Not bad prices on the Underwood. Are they usually pretty good about keeping in stock? What kind of hollow point do they use?

I think most of their bullets are Sierra. Never had a stock issue

One of the best things about 10x25 is...

9x25 Dillon! I hate Glocks, but (seriously) I'm going to have to get a G20 just to try the 9x25 barrel in it.

Matt McNett has been a great proselytizer, but Double Tap ammo is EXPENSIVE. I usually shoot UMC, but even that isn't cheap - I'm happy to find it for 25 a box, but you can find good 45 under 20, and 9 under 10.

I have no problem finding 1 or 2 boxes of 38 Super ammo...but I hate having to leave a grandchild with the seller as payment...

9x25 Dillon! I hate Glocks, but (seriously) I'm going to have to get a G20 just to try the 9x25 barrel in it.

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You get a G20SF, and you'll likely learn to love Glocks. Ask me how I know.

This is my Glock. There are a few others out there that are similar to it, but this one is mine.




The problem with 10mm is it isn't more popular. 10mm is the best semi-auto round period. I don't care what anyone wants to come and argue. 10mm is better than .45ACP, .40 Short and Weak, 9mm, .357Sig, etc. Yeah I understand that to house it you need a .45ACP size gun, but it's called being a man. I have no problems at all firing either my G20 or my Colt Combat Elite, and never think to myself "man these guns are so big compared to full-size 9mm's, and .40 cals that they are uncomfortable or hard to handle" because I am in fact a man and can manage a little bit bigger gun with no problems what-so-ever, and I'm also not like all these people who try and find fault with the Glock grip angle, and try and convince myself that it's terrible, and I can be comfortable with pretty much any modern semi-auto.

I understand that it can be a little bigger than what most want for CC, but if you just want to have a big, powerful, manageable gun that does everything well/right a 10mm, and a G20SF is hard to beat.