1911 Reliability, Accuracy, Tuning

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mikemyers

mikemyers

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I'm new to this forum, but I've been using forums since before they were called forums. There already is a thread on what I'd like to ask about, but I got a warning message when I tried to reply, telling me it's over two years old, and suggesting that I start a new thread instead.

The thread I was looking at was:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=427973&highlight=1911+reliability+accuracy+tuning

I spent about an hour organizing what I wanted to ask about on my own forum - the text, photos, and so on can be found in response #12 of this thread:
http://www.sgrid.com/forum/showthread.php?301-Maintenance-of-a-1911-pistol

(If posting something from a different forum is not OK here, I'll copy things over, but it's really just background information.)


Basically, I've got a Colt that has never shot as well as I had hoped for, and all this time I assumed the problem was me. Then I had an opportunity to shoot a Wilson a few days ago, and suddenly I was shooting much better. So, maybe the problem with the Colt wasn't all me...?? If you look at the targets I photographed, the top one is with the Colt, the bottom with the Wilson. Since all I'm concerned with right now is the grouping, look at the "reversed" target images shown at the right.

I'm thoroughly confused right now. I don't think I'm ANYWHERE close to being good enough to spend $3000 on a Wilson, even if I had it to spend. I suspect that the thing for me to do might be to send my old Colt out for some rework, but then I was told that for not much more than the cost of improvements to the Colt, I could buy a whole new 1911 that would do everything I want.

Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated. If it's OK to re-post my image here (it's big), I can do that as well.


My goal, is to have a 1911 that I can take to the target range and shoot well. It's not for competition, or self-defense, or night use, and I don't need any "fancy features" other than ones that help enhance the accuracy. If I can get a gun that will help me get better, that's fine - when/if I do, I can always then get a better gun, if that's the way I need to do things.
 
mikemyers, welcome to THR!! I read through your thread on the other site and also the link you included and looked at your Colt/Wilson targets. Based on those targets, your Colt isn't shooting well at all. If you have a caliper, measure the OD of the barrel at the muzzle and the ID of your barrel bushing. The ID of the bushing should be something like 0.002" to 0.003" larger than the OD of the muzzle. If your bushing is rattling around, it's probably a lot more than that. Installing a new bushing is simple enough. You can buy an oversized or standard barrel bushing for around $20 and fit it yourself. It's not particularly difficult to do. There's a good chance that the bushing will fit in the slide, and if you buy the standard version, it'll most likely fit over the barrel since a standard barrel is around 0.580" OD at the muzzle. This alone may cut your groups in half. Ed Brown gives about 0.004" of clearance with the standard bushing but if you want it tighter than that, buy the oversized version and ream it out to get to +0.002" or thereabouts. I like Ed Brown parts but there are many quality to bushings to choose from.

Drop in bushing with 0.584" ID
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=286227

Oversized bushing with 0.574" ID
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/default.aspx?productNumber=494311

Once you get the new bushing fitted, rack the slide (ride it forward), then push down on the barrel hood to see if there's any appreciable barrel movement. If there is, then you may need to send it away or fit a new barrel which is not a trivial job for a novice. An in spec slide and frame and a good drop in barrel can really help the novice with this upgrade, but try the bushing first and go shoot some groups. You may be happily surprised.
 
Get yours tuned up and keep it. It looks like from the other threads that you have an idea of what you want done. First thing you can do is change the bushing and see if that helps at all. If that helps keep going, if it doesn't then contemplate on selling or buying a new one if you don't want to spend the money to get it worked on.
 
YOu can also give EGW a call (or internet order) with the measurements of your slide ID and your barrel OD. They will custom make a bushing for you.

If this doesn't please you and you are skilled with tools and manipulative procedures, I'd suggest a Kart EZ fit barrel system. The barrel/link/bushing with the tool kit will set you back about $200. But the results are worth it.
 
I will take the measurements, but I don't think I really need to - when I put the bushing in the slide I can visibly see it move back and forth as I push it around with my hands, the clearance is much, MUCH more than the figures noted above. So, first step seems to be to replace the bushing.

I went to the link posted up above and many others, but I still haven't found a "barrel bushing fitting kit"; I did find what I think is a good description of what I need to do at the bottom of this page:

http://how-i-did-it.org/1911-project/the_kart_of_barrel_fitting.html

Tonight will be spent doing a lot more searching. Thank you all for the advice.


I'm not sure if the following has anything to do with what I'm trying to accomplish, but when I took the Colt apart for cleaning two days ago, after 50 rounds it did seem pretty dirty inside. However, there were a few areas that looked strange - to me, at least. I was told by one person it's nothing, but I'm not so sure. I took photos of them, which are posted here:

http://www.sgrid.com/forum/showthread.php?314-Gunsmith-Questions

If these are just typical of what things should look like, I'll ignore them and continue on with the suggestions posted up above. I've got a "feeling" that something is not right here, but I haven't yet been able to ask someone that I feel is competent to give me the right answer.....

Again, thank you!
 
To 1858....

Thanks for the detailed instructions. Here are the measurements (using a caliper):

Bushing I.D. = 0.584"
Barrel O.D. = 0.572"
Clearance = 0.012"

Slide I.D. = 0.705"
Bushing O.D. = 0.690"
Clearance = 0.015"

(I tried using a micrometer for the outside diameter measurements, but either it or my caliper is off.... the readings did not match. I'm assuming that if I use the caliper for both measurements, the clearance amount should be more accurate, with both readings being taken with the same tool. I'm not a machinest, and don't have a good set of micrometers to do both OD and ID.)

If the total "slop" is .012 + .015 inches, that's .027. I guess that's a lot more than what you suggest it should be.



I'm not sure what you mean by "rack the slide (ride it forward), then push down on the barrel hood to see if there's any appreciable barrel movement."
 
Based on your measurements it looks like the oversize bushing would probably be your best starting point to see how it improves or not.
 
My quess would be if you get a tight fitting bushing you'll be amazed at the improvement. In a tight fitting custom 1911 there is very little clearance in the bushing to barrel fit. Of course there could be other issues but if it were my money I'd start there and see how much improvement you get.
 
While you are doing the barrel and bushing it would be a good idea to do the trigger. Decide on whether you like a roll trigger or crisp trigger and have it taken to 3 1/2 pounds.
 
You could fit a Ed Brown bushing, EB recoil plug (to match), and have a Smith fit a Barstow (sp?) barrel.

But it's just a Colt. Tightening up the slide by hammering on it is kinda lame. I say leave it be. Make sure it isn't the sights and enjoy that Colt as it is.

Take the money that you could spend fixing it up, and get a EB, Lesbaer, DanWesson, Guncrafter, SVI, etc. etc.
 
However, there were a few areas that looked strange - to me, at least. I was told by one person it's nothing, but I'm not so sure. I took photos of them, which are posted here:

http://www.sgrid.com/forum/showthrea...mith-Questions
Click to expand...

Boy, that does not look right on the frame but I am far from an expert. One of the other guys needs to offer his opinion. No one has mentioned anything yet but someone needs to.
 
I'd appreciate any feedback on the photos - I don't have enough experience to know if this is typical, or if it indicates a problem.

Quick question - wouldn't I be better off to simply go to:
http://www.coltsmfg.com/ShopOnline/tabid/62/CatID/28/Default.aspx
...and order a new Barrel Bushing, perhaps with a new Barrel?

Barrel bushing: http://www.coltsmfg.com/ShopOnline/tabid/62/ProdID/48/Default.aspx
Barrel: http://www.coltsmfg.com/ShopOnline/tabid/62/ProdID/131/Default.aspx
Main Spring: http://www.coltsmfg.com/ShopOnline/tabid/62/ProdID/11/Default.aspx

This may not make the gun into a something good enough for competition shooting, but I'm not that good anyway. $20 + $145 + $4 = "reasonable and affordable".
 
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I doubt if it will effect accuracy, but I noticed one annoying difference between the Colt and the Wilson - the magazine. I have *always* struggled to load the Colt magazine I have - it hurts my fingers, and it's always a hassle. The Wilson has a magazine that has a curved top surface that make it smooth as silk to insert new bullets. Can I buy a Wilson magazine that will work as-is with my Colt, no custom machining or anything of the sort? I know I don't "need" it, but it will make the gun a lot more enjoyable to me.
 
Looks like a lot of damage in there. If I'm seeing things right the VIS is being battered, the frame ramp is chewed up and the rails look like they're being run dry.

You may want a professional opinion but it's hard to say what else is in need of attention. Could you post a few more clear pics. Show us the barrel lugs, the slide and the VIS. Also, clearer well lit pics of the feed ramp, a flashlight will help.
 
Tripp and Wilson both offer excellent magazines for your Colt. Yes they are a bit smoother, and will slide right in, no mods needed. I prefer Tripp but also run Wilson mags.
 
Yes, any manufacturer's 1911 govt. mag should fit, Wilson 47D is likely what you used.

The EGW bushing would be my choice, call George with measurements.

A barrel will require fitting and I don't think you're there yet. For parts and smithing you'd probably be looking at replacement cost if the other issues are corrected.
 
Vertical Impact Surface. Remove the slide, look down the dust cover with the lens (as if you were pointing the bottom of the pistol at the camera). You have a Colt so there should be a circular cut out topped with a bowtie shaped surface. This is where the barrel feet make contact with the frame and from your pictures it appears as though it's been battered. Might want to snap a pic of those feet as well, side and back (chamber side) and throw in a pic of the slide stop pin too.

If you pm 1911Tuner he can give you an in depth analysis of what's going on, just search for his user name and give him a link to the thread.
 
This photo shows the bowtie that skyler is talking about

attachment.jpg

this photo shows the wear that he is also talking about right above it

attachment.jpg


To keep things somewhat simpler with your pistol, my recommendation is to try the bushing first, based on the measurements you took earlier, the oversized one would be your best bet, unless you can get the specs of the bushings you linked.

I am still new to the 1911 system so I am not sure what needs to be done in regards to the VIS, skyler might be able to help more, and 1911Tuner will probably be able as well (hint) :D
 
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