Have You Ever Had A ND?

I haven't but not because I'm some superstar.

I grew up shooting. When I was 8 and trap shooting I negligently pointed a shotgun at an instructor who grabbed the gun and decked me in front of my father. I came to on the deck with ears ringing and and I couldn't see straight for a few minutes. The instructor was shouting something, probably about gun safety. Dad slapped me around when we got home too.

I'm not saying its right but it did work, didn't ND then and won't now.

This was a while ago though - parents of young children now...you probably don't want to go this route.

Yeah, long before the four rules. I was prowling around up on the Grasslands. Targets of opportunity, rocks, cowpies, etc. Broken tip on a 1911 extractor, didn't realize it, gun functioned normally all day. Got back to my camper, jacked the mag, jacked the slide, nothing came out. "Gee, that's funny. I thought there should be one in the chamber." Pointed it at a wooden fencepost, pulled the trigger.

Fencepost didn't like it.

A bang when you expect a click is damned loud. A day later I found the broken extractor tip on my work bench, so I know it was missing while I was shooting all day. I guess the residual pressure blew the cases out.

Did not visually and manually check the chamber before decocking it.

Did not IMMEDIATELY STOP and investigate the cause of the unusual behavior.

That's now my fifth rule. Anything at all unusual, stop and check it out thoroughly.

And let's not forget that the four (or five) rules were generated by experience and did not arise out of a vacuum.

My sixth rule is never lean a gun against a vehicle.

Terry, 230RN

Yes, I did. Lost my hearing for quite some time and thought I had ruptured my ear drums. Spent a lot of time evaluating whether or not I wanted anything to do with guns any more and whether or not I should ever be allowed around guns again. One of the most horrible things I have experienced from a personal point of view as I sat there and contemplated the possible consequences of my actions had someone else been there.

I think I was clearing my Glock without really paying attention and pulled the trigger thinking it was empty, thankfully while the gun was pointing away from me. I was in a 27' trailer. that is a very confined space in which to fire a .40 without hearing protection. It was a Glaser safety slug and didn't exit the trailer.

Not yet in close to fifty years of hunting and shooting, and I hope never. But, it is not impossible for me or anybody else.

I never had. I think I'm lucky.

I have not had a negligent discharge yet. Growing up my father drilled into my head the dangers of firearms and the rules regarding them. During college while I was too broke to do any real shooting (and all my firearms were back at home) I took up paintball. We ended up playing all over the nation. Though not as dangerous the idea of negligent discharge to the eye was horrible. As ambassadors of the sport we made it a point to be safe and teach others the same.

Now that I am back shooting and teaching my girlfriend I, like my father, am drilling the rules in her head. It is helpful to me as it is a reminder of what to do and not to do.

Mike1234567 said:

There was a similar thread not long ago but I don't know where it is. Beware; That debate became a bit heated at times.

Click to expand...

You might remember it was I who posted a thread and OMG I got like 160 posts to it - most were very kind and understanding but others were pretty harsh. That's OK I moved on - it is normal to have the feelings the OP is having. You feel bad? Good! You should! You learned a lesson, move on. You will now be one of the safest gun handlers out there from now on I assure you. And oh yes, it can happen again, just do your best to make damn sure it don't.

My story:
I was going through the SF Qualification Course and three of us had rented a trailer to avoid living in open bays. One night, I was decocking a M1911 and my thumb slipped. In the middle of the night it send a round through the arm of an upholstered chair and the floor of the trailer. For some reason no one woke up and inquired as to the nature of the big ka-BOOM. Shortly after that, I invested in a left-handed thumb safety which was why I had decocked in the first place.

Boomer's story:
I and someone else were staying in a nice hotel across from the Battleship Alabama in Mobile Bay. We had made plans to go shooting that weekend and he brought his .44 S&W down to my room while I finished a round of Doom II (yeah, it was awhile ago). I saw him open the gun rug and carefully count and place 6-rounds of .44 in his pocket. The next moment there was a, you guessed it, earth-shattering ka-Boom and the most dumbfounded look on his face. You could literally see him thinking, "But I put 6 rounds in my pocket!" Yep, he forgot to check the cylinder and there were two ricochet marks, ceiling and floor of the room. We were Certain that somebody was going to come knocking on the door any moment and opened the windows to try and fan out the evidence. For some reason no one ever reacted, so after a few moments we ventured out into the hallway to make our escape. Not more than a few doors down, Housekeeping came out of a room and asked "You boys want your rooms made up?"
"Oh, no Ma'am, ummm... we don't really need any services today, thanks."

Odd that no one ever reacted to either incident, isn't it?
I have a theory about it, mostly about it being such a sharp, unexpected sound that people go "Was that a gunshot? Did you hear a shot?" and then listen real closely. When there are no more forthcoming sounds they just shrug it off as something they must have heard, ... but maybe they didn't.

Yes. Back in 1976 I had just bought a new Ruger New Model Blackhawk, 7 1/2 stainless in 38/357. I was also just married. Was sitting on the couch with my new bride and dry fired out the (open) sliding glass doors. It was loaded with 357.

Yep, while discussing the different kinds of actions with a new shooter...
The gun behaved exactly how it should, I did not.
Shouldn't happen again.
p

From chatters at my gun range, I reckon ND happens very often at outdoor range. Some people have fun shooting and forget they're dealing with deadly weapons. Others are just plain unsafe.

OK, Here's what happened to me.
I was about to leave my apartment going to the gun show. I always kept my Kel-Tec 9mm loaded and one in the chamber. I got the gun, dropped the mag and was trying to rack the slide to remove the chambered round, lost my grip on the slide, it went forward and FIRED!!! Went through a Big Candle on a bookshelf, the bookshelf both sides of the wall and in to the ceiling in the bedroom. I was pretty shook up and since it was early spring we had the windows up to air out the apartment. I was sure someone heard the shot and would call the cops. I just sat there for awhile but nothing. After regaining my composure I went to the Gun Show and traded the Kel-Tec for a 1911. That's not supposed to happen!

I had one 40+ years ago. I think about it when I touch any firearm. I was unloading a 25 colt auto. I did it in the wrong order. Racked slide to clear barrel. THEN removed mag.
Pointed gun at floorboard of car. At the last moment pointed out the opened door at the groung and pulled trigger. WOW did that surprise me. Learned a life long Lesson.

Ok ur grounded till tomarrow and dont ever do it again! Altho it took guts to post your experiance and admit wrong, you have share an experiance we will all learn from thanks.

This is yet again where I chime in and say that the obsession with dropping the hammer causes way too many ADs or NDs. Why does the hammer need to be dropped at all? Just leave it cocked. It's not hurting anything unless the trigger gets pulled, and pulling the trigger to drop the hammer MAY cause a problem.

If you followed these...

simple rules you would not shoot something or somebody by accident... http://www.midwayusa.com/General.mvc/Index/VideoFeatured chris3

Answer to OP = No.

"There are two kinds on ND's-AD's , the ones that have happened and the ones that are going to happen. If you handle firearms long enough the chances of it happening are 99.99999%." Is an irresponsible philosophy and attitude.

With the exception of mechanical failure, every AD/ND or whatever you want to term the bullet hole in your drywall is human err. Admit it, be responsible and learn from it.

There are some very simple rules to follow...ALL THE TIME. Counting rounds is not the standard to clearing a firearm. Treat the gun as if it's loaded until it's cleared. Pointing guns at the ground and pulling their triggers to 'drop the hammer' is not a way to see if the gun is loaded.

I'm baffled by the lack of safe gun handling posted on these boards and the group hugs and pats on the head that follow.

The cavalier attitude of 'it's ok, it will happen to everyone sooner or later' is just simply not owning up to one's responsibilities.

The person with their finger on the trigger bears great responsibility for their actions.

How furious would you be if your neighbor, with a history of ND shot your truck, your dog or worse a family member and then retorted " If you handle firearms long enough the chances of it happening are 99.99999%."

Leaky Waders,

Once you dump the ammo and check the chamber, do you keep the hammer cocked on a revolver? I would assume not. Do you leave the striker-hammer cocked on a pistol after clearing the chamber? I don't, but one thing I do is point the pistol in a safe direction and on a striker fired pistol I pull the trigger, if it has a hammer I lower the hammer.

I have no doubt in my mind that MY NEGLIGENT DISCHARGE, was MY RESPONSIBILITY , along with any out come it caused or could have caused, including bodily injury to any person. I assumed that responsibility and it damn sure ain't cavalier.

Remember this dialouge the first time you drop the hammer on an empty chamber and it
goes off !

Have You Ever Had A ND?

Click to expand...

So far, no, Thank God.

DD...I've owned and handled firearms for over 30 years and have never had a ND/AD etc.

Your assumptions that 99.9999% of people who own and handle firearms will eventually have a AD/ND are outlandish.

These kiss and hug threads after total disregard to basic gun handling are absurd. Hell, I shoot Colt SAA's and don't even do a round count to justify if the weapon is unloaded...I clear it.

The OP counted to 4...and assumed his weapon was clear. That is just plain stupid. I know it sounds harsh. But the fact of the matter is, human error was the contributor.

The gun did not malfunction. The ammo did not malfunction. The ammo didn't cook off from an overly heated barrel.

The OP learned a lesson, then other empathetic people want to pile on and mitigate it as - oh it will happen to everyone, it's ok it will probably happen again, 99.9999% of gun owners will have it happen to them.

The goal is ZERO AD/ND's, with the acknowledgement that human error in the form of simple stupidity, fatigue, distractions, stress, lack of familiarity of the system etc can contribute to the human error.

The goal is NOT ok...we're all going to do it...who/what did you shoot?

had a 22 handgun that I pulled from the safe, like most people I do not store guns loaded.
Wanted to test the hammer/trigger so pointed it down towards the barn floor and pulled.
"BANG".. had to change my shorts and felt ashamed (for not clearing weapon)

Cut-and-pasted feom another post of min. Pictures in the 'recovered bullet' thread.

Retrieved my Taurus M85 from the glovebox while driving to put back into my pocket. Caught the hammer, proceeded to thumb it down, and did not remove my finger from the trigger early enough.

Took the button off the shifter (found busted off but surprisingly unmarked under the seat), went through the lower dash below the radio, a layer of body metal and a subframe brace, and rattled around for a week before falling out the rear floor-level AC vent.

Missed my right leg by inches.

I have since bobbed the hammer of the .38, switched to more traditional SJHP +P, and bought new pants.

EDIT
A note: NEVER set off a gun in a confined space if you can help it. You only even hear the first half of the 'BA--'. 158gr standard pressure .38, and I was completely deaf for about an hour, and yelling-at-grandpa level long enough to make me worry I had lost it. My hearing returned over the course of the next 36-48 hours, was ringing right up to 48-72, and occasionally over another day or two. I still may have permanently damaged it.

Not exactly, i had my Stevens 237 and the bolt (its a bolt action shotgun) was cocked and the safety is the type where you pull it in the back of the bolt. So i was there with my gun and its unloaded and my finger is right in between the end of the bolt and the bolt its self and finger on the trigger. I accidentally pulled the trigger the back of the bolt comes forward when you pull the trigger and punches my finger and DAMN it hurt like he((!!!!!

I'll fess up. It has happened to me. Combination of mechanical and lack of attention on my part.

I used to have a Bushmaster AR pistol. After a shooting trip I was moving everything back into the house. I had some friends help me load the truck so I didn't see every gun before loading (My fault for not checking). As I was in the garage pulling everything out I noticed that the Bushmaster still had the magazine in it. I pulled the mag and saw that it was empty. I then racked the bolt about 4 times. I did not look into the chamber (once again my fault). I pulled the trigger to drop the hammer and.......
At least I had payed attention about not pointing at something that couldn't be destroyed. Only damage was to some stacked wood. Let me tell you that a AR pistol going off inside of a garage while not wearing ear protection wakes you right up. I do not want to do that again.

The mechanical part?? After tearing down the gun I found that the extractor was snapped in two, so when I racked the bolt it didn't extract the round in the chamber.

I have definitely learned from this and can tell you that this taught me to never take anything for granted when it comes to clearing guns.

"Almost everything called an accident is a predictable event that is the direct result of somebody screwing-up." - Robert D. Raiford

My kids can recite this by heart. Everyone should internalize it to their core, IMO.