Auction that bothered me

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Our friend rellascout said:
Sorry but IMHO this mentality and statement comes from someone who has never run a small business.

Sorry, rellascout my friend, but I run TWO small businesses.
Sole proprietor of an architecture firm, and I own a sushi restaurant.

I totally understand your 'time is money' phrase. Absolutely.

I'm truly encouraging us to be motivated to improve our world.
Not asking you to go broke doing it.
By opening up your market to California with a little research,
you can make the ideal 'time is money' work for you.

Been there, done that. It works if you want to make it work.
 
I'm truly encouraging us to be motivated to improve our world.
Not asking you to go broke doing it.
By opening up your market to California with a little research,
you can make the ideal 'time is money' work for you.

Been there, done that. It works if you want to make it work.

I am sorry but complying with the BS rules and regs of CA does not and will not improve the world. IMHO doing the exact opposite will have a better impact. Each time you comply you infact strength them. Sorry but that is the reality. I feel bad for people who live there but we all make choices in life. My wife was offered a high paying job in a dry county in KY. You had to drive 20 minutes to get a beer in a resturant and over an hour to get to a liquor store. We have choosen not to relocate there because the values expressed in their laws do not reflect ours. I feel the same way about gun laws. I grew up in MD but would have a hard time moving back there because of their restrictions. Choices choices choices thankfully we still get to make some.

Maybe for you and your business the equation makes sense but that does not necessarily translate to someone elses. Again if I am already seemlessly selling and shipping my products to areas without heavy regulation why do I need to go into a heavily regulated higher risk area? I am going to sell at the same profit margin but one is going to cost me more? How is that maximizing my business? It seems like you are suggesting businesses do it out of altruism? Is that the way you runs your business? Do you take less profit and accept more risk to make the world a better place? If you do that is great. I love to hear different perspectives other small business owners.

To the OP if you don't like the verbiage that the seller is using then don't bid. I do not buy things from people who do not support me and my values whenever possible.
 
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[Moving] does nothing to improve conditions for people in California. I readily agree. The goal isn't to make things better for the ignorant masses, the goal is to make things better for my family. I love California. I was born there, I love the weather and scenery. But I'll never live there, because I can't stand the average political opinion, and realize that one man among a mass can't change anything.

The problem with that reasoning is that, in the end it isn't better for your family. Politics is a game of precedents. Once you get something in place somewhere, it's much easier to get it implemented elsewhere. CA in particular has been and will continue to be a politically trend-setting state. Do you really want to cede it to the anti's? If you do you can guarantee that pretty soon you'll be seeing similar bans proposed in your home state.

What people don't realize is that the CA pro-gun rights lobby is VERY active. They have to be to keep things from getting much worse. And thanks to things like the Heller decision, we're finally able to push back some. Now would be the worst time for us to back out. We're fighting the root of the problem.

Anti thought is like a disease, if part of you is sick you don't ignore it or lop it off, you treat it. Don't think that if you leave CA or any state to the 'ignorant masses' that they'll be content to let you enjoy your freedoms. Sooner or later they'll decide they want to live near you and they'll bring their politics with them. The solution is to educate them. Don't like ex-Californians coming to your state and messing things up? Take them shooting. Ignorant masses threatening your way of life? Show them that guns aren't the scary baby murdering objects they think they are. Take people on the fence shooting. Show them that the BS spouted by the Brady's is just that, BS. Introducing people to our passion is the single most effective way to protect it and it's something everyone can do, regardless of background or political aspirations.
 
Blows me away how so many people keep saying "victim" and "they aren't responsible" when refering to those living in anti-2a states.....If it isn't their fault, whose is it? They are the people who continue to vote in their politicians, they are the people who sit back and whine and do nothing as their rights are stripped away..... It's attitudes like this that have caused us to loose so many rights already....
 
Blows me away how so many people keep saying "victim" and "they aren't responsible" when refering to those living in anti-2a states.....If it isn't their fault, whose is it? They are the people who continue to vote in their politicians, they are the people who sit back and whine and do nothing as their rights are stripped away..... It's attitudes like this that have caused us to loose so many rights already....

I DIDN'T vote for the current politicians. Elections are not unanimous. I didn't vote for the ammo regulations, or the lead-free BS or any of that stuff. I voted AGAINST them. I told my friends and family to vote against them. I explained why they are bad ideas. Most of the people I talked to agreed with me and I believe most did vote against them. I'm a member of the NRA, the CRPA and the GOA. I donate money to all of the above in addition to my membership dues. I'm an active member of my local gun club. I take new people shooting on a regular basis, people who have never handled a gun before. The vast majority of them keep coming back. Many of them are now gun-owners themselves. So tell me, how is this my fault? What more am I supposed to do? How much more do I need to do so that you don't think I'm 'sitting back and whining'?
 
One more thing: several people have mentioned Kel-Tec as not selling to CA. I don't think that's true although there may be other companies that choose not to. I say this because I used to own a Kel-Tec SU-16CA, which is a version of their SU-16C made specifically to comply w/ the CA AWB. If you're looking to get mad at someone, Kel-Tec isn't the right target.
 
I wouldn't have used the word communist, but I might have said something like; "I refuse to ship to California until their restrictions of gun rights are lifted", or something to that effect. I fully support STI and Ronnie Barrett in being tough and not selling in California.

Even if it's not the fault of Californian gun owners that these laws exist, it is THE RESPONSIBILITY of Californian gun owners to get them repealed. The gun community refusing to do business there is about all we can do to help.
 
Look in Shotgun News. I have one from a few months ago and I saw one in there that was $99. Not illuminated. You can find them from time to time, 4x to 6x, with or without illumination, seldom for more than $200-$300. They turn up at gunshows too.

Keep your eye out, they also make a sight for the AK that is like a Trilux, and another that looks like that but fits RPG's (don't know if the mount is the same).

I just recall all this from memory, I wasn't even looking for them, but they do pop up quite often.

I've seen the "won't ship to Cali" before. Don't understand it save not wanting to run afoul of some stupid law (in which case I still don't understand it!).
 
I wouldn't have used the word communist, but I might have said something like; "I refuse to ship to California until their restrictions of gun rights are lifted", or something to that effect. I fully support STI and Ronnie Barrett in being tough and not selling in California.

Even if it's not the fault of Californian gun owners that these laws exist, it is THE RESPONSIBILITY of Californian gun owners to get them repealed. The gun community refusing to do business there is about all we can do to help.

Thanks for your support. Have a nice day.

Dan
 
I DIDN'T vote for the current politicians. Elections are not unanimous. I didn't vote for the ammo regulations, or the lead-free BS or any of that stuff. I voted AGAINST them. I told my friends and family to vote against them. I explained why they are bad ideas. Most of the people I talked to agreed with me and I believe most did vote against them. I'm a member of the NRA, the CRPA and the GOA. I donate money to all of the above in addition to my membership dues. I'm an active member of my local gun club. I take new people shooting on a regular basis, people who have never handled a gun before. The vast majority of them keep coming back. Many of them are now gun-owners themselves. So tell me, how is this my fault? What more am I supposed to do? How much more do I need to do so that you don't think I'm 'sitting back and whining'?
You need to get up and leave. Do what you can to change things that shouldn't be happening. When you've done all you feel you can do, and you aren't successful in changing anything, you don't shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I tried." Nobody cares if you tried. If people did that, this world would be a ****tier place than it already is.

Instead, you take the next step. Otherwise, you're sitting there whining. My two cents.
 
People who say this need to understand one thing: their refusal to do business with California residents is exactly what California's government wants, and that attitude lets them win. Being unwilling to jump through the hoops allows California's lawmakers to succeed at their goal: depriving their law-abiding citizens of guns.
 
You need to get up and leave. Do what you can to change things that shouldn't be happening. When you've done all you feel you can do, and you aren't successful in changing anything, you don't shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I tried." Nobody cares if you tried. If people did that, this world would be a ****tier place than it already is.

Instead, you take the next step. Otherwise, you're sitting there whining. My two cents.
No offense, sir. And speaking of doing something to fight for our rights... what have you done, or any of us for that matter, to deal with our messed up Federal Laws/Regs that encroach on the 2A?
 
Bobson said:
You need to get up and leave. Do what you can to change things that shouldn't be happening. When you've done all you feel you can do, and you aren't successful in changing anything, you don't shrug your shoulders and say, "Oh well, I tried." Nobody cares if you tried. If people did that, this world would be a ****tier place than it already is.

Instead, you take the next step. Otherwise, you're sitting there whining. My two cents.

I think you're missing my point. What I'm trying to say is that Ca's gun owners are active and fighting tooth and nail. We have to be to keep things from getting worse. And they haven't been lately, despite the efforts of a whole mess of anti-politicians. We're not done yet either, I've still got plenty of fight left.

You think Ca's laws are bad now? It's a paradise compared to what the anti's want and would have if we all pulled up stakes and did as you suggest. The anti's want to force us out, which is all the more reason I should stay. This isn't a kids' game where you just walk away if you don't like the rules, this is a battle where retreating means giving ground to the enemy. It means giving them a stable base where they can reinfornce their broken ideas and launch assaults on neighboring states (Your home state of Arizona for example). I don't want to run away. I'm going to stay and continue spending my money and time fighting their adgenda.
 
I wouldn't have used the word communist, but I might have said something like; "I refuse to ship to California until their restrictions of gun rights are lifted", or something to that effect. I fully support STI and Ronnie Barrett in being tough and not selling in California.

Let's get one thing clear here. Barrett's boycott is not against the citizens of Ca. Barrett refused to sell to Ca state agencies because they supported the .50 BMG ban. Barrett does sell their rifles in other calibers to civilians here. For that reason I also support Barrett's decision. He's specifically refusing to sell to people with a contrary political belief. That's a big difference from stopping all sales to Ca. He's saying: "I'm not going to supply the enemy until they change sides." You're saying: "I'm not going to supply my allies until they give up." The anti's want fewer gun and gun owners in Ca, telling me to move and not selling me guns because of where I live is exactly what they want.

ETA: Link to details on Barrett's boycott. I dug around and found out that STI is boycotting all of Ca, although some sources say they are now selling to LE and they do list one FFL in Ca as a distributor and dealer. Basically, they're doing the opposite of Barrett, supporting those that trample our rights and shafting the people who want to make things better.
 
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so ,
if the pro gun people leave Cali and the anti's win, how does that help our gun rights in the rest of the country? The anti's will see that as a victory, and it will embolden them to try it in another state. It will energize them for years.

I, however, would rather support my Cali brethren in their fight and give encouragement. Rather than telling them to be cowards and slink away into the night with their tails between their legs.

Maybe the reason why gun rights in certain states is the way it is, has to do with people with attitudes like y'alls that basically say "F*** 'em they made their bed, now they can lie in it." Shouldn't we stand together?
 
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I, however, would rather support my Cali brethren in their fight and give encouragement.
Selling a gun to someone isn't supporting him, and telling him to roll over and take it where the Sun doesn't shine isn't encouraging. What I'm doing is encouraging. Encouraging people who actually believe the Constitution means something to tell their politicians to piss off. Encouraging them to realize that since they can't change the opinions of the masses, to join the rest of us in areas where we are the masses. Were our founding fathers cowards for leaving Europe and forming America? No, they realized they couldn't sway the common opinion, and decided to "stand together," as you put it, and here we are. Maybe it's time we stand together once again.

I'm all for standing together, as long as the people I'm standing with have enough dedication to the cause to continue the fight. Leaving a land of oppression isn't giving up, it's forcing the idiots to fend for themselves.

If all the pro-2A people in Cali left for states where reps actually believe the Constitution means something, instead of crying about how they're being oppressed by the idiots who run that state, where would California be? The entire state would be left with all the morons who call shots in cities like San Francisco (where residents can't legally own ANY guns, but visitors are free to bring them). It won't take much time for that situation to show voters that they need to turn things around. Frankly, I believe nothing less that will work to bring about that change.

If you're a California resident and you disagree, well... I'm sorry. You can choose to remain there and live with it, but make sure you know that nobody else has the power to change anything. It's entirely up to you and your neighbors. If your efforts aren't working, then I guess you're SOL. Feel free to keep working to change things, with the knowledge that you may never be successful; or come join us in the real America - where the Bill of Rights is enforced, instead of ignored.
 
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I won't sell or buy anything from California or Texas. For my own reasons and it may not be rational but thats what makes the USA great is we still have a little free choice. Frank
 
Cowards leave when the going gets tough. I urge all you arm-chair quarterbacks living in places like Texas and Arizona to grow a pair and move to CA and put your money where your mouth is. Its easy to lecture from a pedestal when you can enjoy your 2nd amendment rights with no effort whatsoever. You did nothing to fight for those rights you enjoy, those states were conservative and pro-gun way before most of you were even born so don't tell me that I need to look to people such as yourselves for leadership and take responsibility for CA politics.

Ceding control and moving away from a problem does nothing to improve and ensure our Second Amendment rights. Those of you that advocate ignoring CA or moving away to solve the problem are 100% delusional and the NRA doesn't agree with your philosophy one iota. They spend quite a bit of money and resources here (backed by Cali NRA members) fighting the left-wing regime.

But seriously, stop lecturing us about how we need to relocate our families and give up good jobs and stop telling us we are the reason for the problem because we live here. If every gun owner relocated to Texas and AZ guess what would happen to gun rights for the rest of the states? It wouldn't be good and if you think that is the best course of action you are doing a huge disservice to the 2nd Amendment and gun owners everywhere.

Like I said, back up you mouth with action and come here to CA to fight for our rights if you feel so strongly against the situation here. Don't lecture us from your gun owners utopia like AZ that you most likely enjoy by default and had nothing to do with creating. I vote for the same type of people you do but unfortunately I don't enjoy the luxury of having the majority of the population in my favor. You should be moving here to create a better CA and a better USA as a whole. I'm here in enemy territory fighting for my rights as a gun-owner, where are you? But go ahead, don't sell to the gun-owner living in CA because his job took him there or maybe he is there serving in the military. That will really solve the problem and make you feel like you are sticking it to the left (sarcasm intended)
 
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I am sorry but complying with the BS rules and regs of CA does not and will not improve the world. IMHO doing the exact opposite will have a better impact. Each time you comply you infact strength them. Sorry but that is the reality.

I can't help but feel there is a serious disconnect between the philosophy and reality of what you are saying. How could you possibly comply more with CA's anti-gun laws than refusing to send guns and gun accessories to CA? Do you not realize that this is the very intent of the laws? The more guns and gun owners that flood the state the harder it is for them to restrict our rights.
 
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