AK accuracy?

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simonm2211

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I have been considering getting my first AK and have pretty much decided on an Arsenal SGL21. I was talking to a friend (experienced shooter) and he was adamant the accuracy would be mediocre at best. I understand there are different quality levels from the different AK brands, but what kind of accuracy can I reasonably expect?

Thanks
 
It should be able to hold a 3-4" group at 100yds with cheap ammo. It may shoot better depending on ammo quality and your individual gun, and technique, but don't be too surprised if it doesn't.
 
My cheap Century wasr 10 shoots about like post#2 said, with better grade ammo, and allowing for my less than stellar marksmanship.
 
My Ak-74 with russian surplus will do about 2-3 MOA without issue. To be honest I have to pay attention to out shoot it, the vast majority of the time I'm the limiting factor.

-Jenrick
 
Switching to Tech-Sights or a good red dot will go a long way. I have 5+ AK variants, and only the Saiga 12 wears stock iron sights. All others sport Aimpoints/Eotechs/etc. With milsurp ammo, I can usually pull off sub-3.5" groups at roughly 100 meters (with the rifle AK's, not the shotgun AK's, haha), if I'm leaning on something for support. The trick is to get a really solid mount. The vast tolerance differences across the various AKs makes it difficult to find a good 'plug-n-play' mount, but the Ultimak or a solid side-rail mount should treat you right.
 
I often hear about "mediocre" accuracy with AK's. I believe it is often a self fulfilling prophesy. Believing that AK's can't shoot, the shooter fails to apply the fundamentals of sight picture, breathing control and trigger squeeze.
I have owned several AK's but the Yugo M70 under folder pictured has proven to be very accurate.
There are two five shot groups on the target. Range was 100 yards, and it was raining heavily while shooting. Standard sights used, and the rear was adjusted between the two groups. Golden Tiger FMJ was used.
DSC01611.jpg
 
I have been considering getting my first AK and have pretty much decided on an Arsenal SGL21. I was talking to a friend (experienced shooter) and he was adamant the accuracy would be mediocre at best. I understand there are different quality levels from the different AK brands, but what kind of accuracy can I reasonably expect?

Thanks
I've got one that I've shot steel plates with out to 300 yards and have no problems shooting 6"x6" plates at 200 yards with. Are you going to get one hole groups? No, but I'd consider what I can do with steel sights to be plenty accurate.
 
The most accurate AK's I've shot have been Saigas and Yugos. I'd expect 2-3 MOA groups with those, although I've had a couple that shot 2 MOA pretty consistently. The worst was a MAK90 that shot about 6 MOA. From the average WASR I'd expect about 4 MOA.

The most disappointing was a PSL that shot about 3 MOA. I never expected match grade accuracy out of it, but I did expect more than that.

One other gripe I've had with Romanian rifles is that both of mine had the scope rail misaligned.
 
4 moa is what specified according to wikipedia. That's new from a bench. Surplus rifles
and reassembled may be far out of spec. I found one then is to watch for proper feeding.
Bullets especially soft points can be deformed when chambering.
 
This was shot at 200 yards with my SAR1 using its slightly canted sights. Ammo was Wolf 154 grain SP's the gun likes. The lower group was fired from a rest to confirm zero, the upper from a cross legged sitting at a steady cadence.

ry%3D400.jpg

So you dont think its a fluke, this was the previous target chasing zero around....

ry%3D400.jpg

This is the gun. The red dot was not "on" when the group was shot.

ry%3D400.jpg



I have AK's across the price spectrum, and they all shoot pretty much the same with ammo they like. The only guns I had problems with accuracy wise, were US made/assembled guns. They didnt shoot near as well as the guns originally/assembled/barreled in the country of origin prior to import. My SAR and WASR (both Century guns) shoot just as well as my Krebs AK103K Saiga conversion, so dont be fooled by price or looks. My Arsenal/Global Trades SSR-85C, put together from a Polish kit on a US receiver, was a pretty gun, cost about half again as much as the SAR/WASR, and shot like crap.


Heres a couple more. All were shot from field positions, mostly cross legged sitting....

AK103K (14"barrel) vs SOCOM 16 at 100 yards, both guns wearing an Aimpoint. I forget now which shot which, not that it really matters.

ry%3D400.jpg

Im pretty sure these two were with the AK103K with an Aimpoint, both at 100 yards..

sitting...

ry%3D400.jpg

offhand...

ry%3D400.jpg

Snap shots with the SAR/Aimpoint at 50(R) and 100(L).....
ry%3D400.jpg


My AK's with red dots on them shoot very much the same as my AR's with red dots on them (with iron sights too for that matter, depending on how youre shooting), when youre using targets without aiming points. The hits on target look very similar when compared. The only way the AR's tend to "out shoot" the AK's, is in more traditional bullseye type "target" shooting, as the AR's sights are more geared that way. Tha AK's sights are still very serviceable, and I find them to be faster, and easier to use when you use the gun a little more realistically.
 
I had a Saiga 308 and a Vepr 308 to the range at the same time with Federal 150 gr power shok ammo they both were 1.75 moa at 200 meters.
I had a milled arsenal was sub 2 moa at 100 yds. Now I am shooting a stamped arsenal 74 that is closer to 2- 2.5 moa.

If your new rifle won't hold a 2-3 inch group at 100 yds for four shots I would move it and get a different one. BTW if you want an accurate one I rate the 16" Saiga, Milled SLR or SaM7, or 16" Vepr 7.62 among the most accurate AK rifles ever brought in. Also the unconverted Saiga 5.45's are pretty darned good too.

ETA +1 on the M70 for accuracy as well. I read a write up a couple years ago on it where it was a very accurate rifle.
 
AK pattern guns tend to be 200 yard rifles for the most part. Some models are accurate enough to go beyond that, but even the best ones aren't considered useably accurate much beyond 300 yards.

Also, in my experience, AKs will start to string shots vertically once they get really hot.

Sent from my Android smart phone using Tapatalk.
 
I think it depends mostly on the shooter, and what grade of ammo you feed it.

but i heard that polytech legends are match grade guns.

but hey im talking about what i read and have heard from people about the polytechs, personally i own a cheapo wasr, it's decent about 3-4 MOA with open sights and around 2.5 MOA with a scope on it, usuing the ammo that comes in the sealed tins. and im pretty blind LOL,

good luck on what you do enjoy
 
They are not precision rifles, but are more than accurate enough for combat use at realistic distances.
 
It'll probably be more than accurate enough to have a whole lot of fun with it, as long as you don't expect to use it as a precision rifle. All I ran through mine was whatever steel cased ammo was cheapest at the time that I was buying and didn't have problems banging a 12" plate at 100 and 200 yards. I just hate the triggers on them, but that's a personal thing.
 
I think a lot of the problem here with accuracy complaints is how people shoot and what they are expecting. The comparisons are often made with guns that arent even comparable. I agree, the AK's are at best a 300 yard gun, but I also consider the AR's to be the same, just for a different reason. They may shoot better farther, but theyve started to loose that velocity advantage they have at closer distances, and are just poking .22 caliber holes at that point. Not that I want to get poked by a .22 at any distance. :)

A number of people Ive seen shoot AK's also dont seem to have spent much time with one, and dont look comfortable shooting them. They seem to want to hold them wrong, like the thing is going to hurt them, or more often than not, the gun ends up at the hip, being bump fired.

Ive always found the triggers on the AK's to be pretty nice, even the ones with crappy compliance parts that had slap. Compared to most stock AR triggers, they are almost a match trigger.
 
I think a lot of the problem here with accuracy complaints is how people shoot and what they are expecting. The comparisons are often made with guns that arent even comparable.

I don't currently shoot High Power, and I've never shot Bench Rest. When evaluating an SLR, I'm looking for practical accuracy. For my purposes, I guess you could describe that as the ability to hit a 4 MOA target at any given distance that is practical to the extent of the platform and caliber.

I agree, the AK's are at best a 300 yard gun, but I also consider the AR's to be the same, just for a different reason. They may shoot better farther, but theyve started to loose that velocity advantage they have at closer distances, and are just poking .22 caliber holes at that point. Not that I want to get poked by a .22 at any distance.

Dickering over terminal ballistics on human targets for a rifle that will likely never see any sort of combat is kind of moot. It's like trying to evaluate the merits of a car that will be used as a daily driver based on how quickly it does a 1/4 mile.

That said, I have little doubt that the .223 would suffice in a situation where it would be used defensively.

A number of people Ive seen shoot AK's also dont seem to have spent much time with one, and dont look comfortable shooting them. They seem to want to hold them wrong, like the thing is going to hurt them, or more often than not, the gun ends up at the hip, being bump fired.

I've got a reasonable amount of time spent shooting AKs. I certainly see no reason to baby them or hold it like it's going to bite or whatever. However, this does play into my biggest ergonomic gripe about AKs:

On most of them, the stocks are far too short. I suppose they're great if you're a 12 year old Ugandan child soldier, but they make for a poor fit on a fully-grown American man.

Ive always found the triggers on the AK's to be pretty nice, even the ones with crappy compliance parts that had slap. Compared to most stock AR triggers, they are almost a match trigger.

The MAK 90 I used to own had a reasonably good trigger. It was overly long, but wasn't too heavy, probably around 5 lbs.
 
My norinco Mak 90 is a great shooter. 2 inch grps at 100 yds as far i remember using open sights and Ulyanovk 124 gr HP , the one that comes in white box although no longer imported for many years now. It has the 8 M type bullet known to fragment on impact, quite a devastating round .
 
elmerfudd: "The most accurate AK's I've shot have been Saigas and Yugos. I'd expect 2-3 MOA groups with those, although I've had a couple that shot 2 MOA pretty consistently"

That's consistent with what I've found with my 7.62x39 and .223 Saigas. They're not too bad.

OTOH, I recently picked up a .308 Saiga that has surprised me. It lobs good handloads into 1.5" pretty consistently at 100 yards. It's actually doing better than that. I'll see a bunch of bullet holes touching and one about an inch or so away from the main group.

There appears to be a reason for this. The smaller Saigas have a two lug bolt. The .308 has three lugs. Three lugs, like a three-legged stool, stabilize consistently. Other than that, the .308 looks just like the x39 and the .223, 'cept a bit heavier in some areas.

The three-lug bolt does make the rifle a little harder to reassemble after cleaning, however.
 
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The shorter stock is great if you do any run and gun with the AK versus bench rest shooting. I can get my SGL-21 to shoot to about 3" at 100 yards with brown-bear.
 
AK's are not sniper rifles. AK's are not purpose built for you exactly the way you want them rifles. AK's are Communist rifles for everyone. The accuracy on them is not bad; 2MOA groups @100M are rather standard in my experience. They are mostly accurate enough to skill score a lethal hit on a man at 300M. They are accurate enough to hit something you are aiming at, but they are not precision instruments; it's a soldier's rifle.
 
I don't currently shoot High Power, and I've never shot Bench Rest. When evaluating an SLR, I'm looking for practical accuracy. For my purposes, I guess you could describe that as the ability to hit a 4 MOA target at any given distance that is practical to the extent of the platform and caliber.
Thats sort of my point, its usually the target shooters who stress "inaccuracy", basing things on their type of shooting. I wouldnt use an AK to shoot HP or one of the military rife matches either, if I was trying to shoot for "score", I wouldnt use a FAL, G3, or a most others either for that matter, as they dont generally make good "target" guns.

Change things up a little, and take that match grade AR and shoot it a little more realistically, and even with the match gun, youre going to see very similar results on a target with no fixed aiming point as you do with the AK's.

Dickering over terminal ballistics on human targets for a rifle that will likely never see any sort of combat is kind of moot. It's like trying to evaluate the merits of a car that will be used as a daily driver based on how quickly it does a 1/4 mile.
If all youre doing is punching paper, I agree, but it still puts both guns in the 300 yard range for most realistic, or other than "target" use. Both guns tend to excel at closer, more realistic distances, and both are effective within that envelope.

I've got a reasonable amount of time spent shooting AKs. I certainly see no reason to baby them or hold it like it's going to bite or whatever. However, this does play into my biggest ergonomic gripe about AKs:

On most of them, the stocks are far too short. I suppose they're great if you're a 12 year old Ugandan child soldier, but they make for a poor fit on a fully-grown American man.
This comes up a lot, and Ive never understood the complaints. The AK's "standard" stock, has the exact LOP as the M16/M16A1(the fixed stocked A2's are only 5/8" longer), and most other "combat" stocked rifles, right around 13". Even the M1 and M1A have that basic LOP.

Ive personally seen a number of people who were complaining, trying to shoot the rifle with their cheek on the "comb" portion of the stock, which is incorrect. If you try to shoot this way, the stock will definitely feel "short". If you shoulder the rifle properly, with your head down and forward, with your nose along the top cover, and your cheek resting on the narrow portion of the stock at just behind the receiver/top cover, the rifle feels correct, and shoulders naturally. Again, the same basic way you shoulder and shoot an AR/M16.

One other this in this respect I find interesting is, many of the AR shooters who tell you the AK's stock is to short, have the adjustable "sliders" on their guns and they are often set shorter than the AK's fixed stocks.

The MAK 90 I used to own had a reasonably good trigger. It was overly long, but wasn't too heavy, probably around 5 lbs.
For me, compared to most stock AR's triggers, the stock AK's triggers just seem so much "cleaner", smoother, and lighter. All but one of my factory AR's have the standard, fairly heavy and crunchy triggers. The one AR I have that doesnt have one like that, has a nicely tuned "match/precision" type trigger that comes as an upgrade.

The accuracy on them is not bad; 2MOA groups @100M are rather standard in my experience.
Ive never been able to get mine to shoot that well, 3" or so is usually the norm from a good field position or a rest. Probably just the right gun and ammo combo. Younger eyes may also have something to do with it too. :)

I dont reload for mine, and never really saw the point, as ammo was always cheap, and accurate "enough" for my needs. Not saying you cant do better that way though, if thats your goal.

As kind of a side note between ammo and group/accuracy relationships. Ammo is often the cause of what some would call "inaccuracy", from the stand point of what the ammo's "spec" is. I have an Armalite M15A4(T) .223, that is basically a target/precision type rifle. With my reloads, it will literally put 5 rounds into one hole at 100 yards off its bipod or a ruck. Swap that mag of reloads for a mag of issue USGI Lake City, and the gun wont shoot any better than 2". Same day, time, position, everything, but the ammo.

If your trying to shoot groups with your AK, you do need to find something it likes, and buy that lot in bulk if you can. Ive always had the best luck with the old Barnaul 125 grain SP's in most of my AK's. Its seems to be the most consistent and accurate. Wolf has always been hit or miss. One lot shoots great, then next is horrible. One thing I did notice when I pulled the bullets from a couple of each, the Barnauls have a SP with a fully jacketed base, much like Sierra's Game Kings. The Wolf, and a couple of others I pulled, all have a more traditional roll crimped base FMJ type bullet (including the HP's, which are neither a target or hunting HP). A couple of the Wolf rounds had lead smeared across the base at the crimp, which is usually a indication of trouble. The bullets base is more critical than the tip, and any imperfections here, will cause you a lot of grief on paper.
 
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