DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF

Allow the states their rights! Let individual states outline their own firearm regulations.
Sorry, if you live in blue state.

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Nothing to be sorry about.

I live in arguably the bluest state in the country.

According to VT's firearms laws, I can own anything up to WMDs (no NFA, AWB or GCA in VT). I don't need a permit to carry, concealed or openly (by VT Supreme Court ruling from the 1930s). I can walk into a gun shop and walk back out with a firearm with no background check (dealer is required to keep a record of the purchase, however).

Now, if they would just repeal the ban on suppressors… (though the fine for possession is only $25 and a civil violation).

it will never happen.
The Feds never eliminate a portion of themselves, they just keep building more govt

Bureaucracies apparently grew under all recent presidents, even under GOP people in the White House.

But we can always dream of a more efficient, citizen-friendly government.

With the responsibilities simply moving to another agency there is likely no gain at all. Who knows? It could get even worse. On top of that, the same old folks will be filling most of the same old jobs. Think about it. Who has more ability to spy on American citizens? The BATFE or the FBI?

If the choice is fire Holder or the ATF, I'd settle for the ATF.

It would be like the talk of absorbing the Air Force bank into the Army. It would eliminate a few high level positions, save money, but the mission really wouldn't change that much.

Dont get to excited, this is purely a money saving issue. They could eliminate a good portion of the higher ranking ATF positions while absorbing them into the FBI. Heck just saving on the ATF t-shirts and buying more FBI tshirt in bulk will save money.

You could do this to a lot of smaller organizations, eliminate a lot of high level positions and the overall status-qua would remain the same.

When Eric throws the BATFE under the bus, he might want to step back from the curb and check to see if the O is standin' behind him...'cause as we all know...another bus will be along shortly.

DOJ Considering Elimination of ATF


This was kicked around some years ago and was shelved because, IIRC, while other departments were willing to take on the duties, none wanted the ATF staff. It seems they are not highly regarded in federal LE circles. Who'd have guessed.

There is no traction in congress for the elimination of the BATFE or any other federal agency or department. Despite all the cheap rhetoric, congress continues to grow the US government. The Dep't of Homeland Security added thousands of federal jobs and federal contractor jobs to the US payroll.

Except for Grassley, Issa and a few others, few in congress really care about Fast and Furious.

I'm kind of in the "devil you know vs the devil you don't know" camp on this one.

1. The gun laws wouldn't change with an elimination of BATFE so somebody...somebody federal...is going to keep them going.
2. We know the BATFE. We know how the operate. We know what to do and what to avoid.
3. We don't know a darn thing about their replacement and unless that replacement is the NRA itself, I think we can be fairly safe in assuming that things would not improve from our collective perspective.
4. For the same reason, there is a strong chance that things could deteriorate from our collective perspective...either short or long term.

No...you make bad laws and the agencies that you create to enforce them frankly can't really do good can they? So until you change all those laws, I am not sure I'd want a big shake up at the agency that enforces them...the potential for disruption for us is too great a risk.

I suppose there is some small chance that without a dedicated agency, enforcement of some laws will go by the wayside. Feds running around throwing people in jail for having a 15 7/8" barrel on a shotgun might cease. Enforcement of the NFA Stamp Act on suppressors and SBRs might cease. You know, like the LAPD and NYPD looking the other way for people smoking a joint, playing some cards, rolling some dice.

BIG maybe there.

It almost seemed like spring again! April 1st, to be exact.

Get rid of the ATF, the DEA, and cut the IRS down to 1/3 of its size, we'd save a bunch for sure.

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Don't forget the EPA, the FDA, the NSA. the TSA, HS, and the USDA. I'm sure there are a few other alphabet agencies that I forgot. Oh, and all the Czars need to go. If for no other reason we are (supposed to be) a capitalist country, not a communist/socialist one.

Wyman

As grossly over-sized and over-powered the agencies cited above are the worst of all hasn't even been mentioned. The Federal Reserve is by far the most dangerous, abusive, and damaging this country has ever seen.

All of those running the F&F show should be fired, lose their pensions, and have all their wealth confiscated. We'll not see any progress unless we all hit the streets marching relentlessly shouting until they can no longer ignore... no, "ignore" is the wrong word... until they can no longer laugh at us.

Something like:

“That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness”

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I'm going to come in here and defend the ATF. Remember the full acronym is BATFE which is Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco Firearms & Explosives.

This agency is necessary IMO in some respects because they do possess some expertise in forensics regarding these areas. Recently here in Michigan a lawyer and his children were victims of a car bombing. They all lived but the ATF is investigating the case, and probably doing better than MSP could do by far.

However maybe we do need to re-evaluate their functions in other areas.

JWF III said:

Don't forget the EPA, the FDA, the NSA. the TSA, HS, and the USDA. I'm sure there are a few other alphabet agencies that I forgot. Oh, and all the Czars need to go. If for no other reason we are (supposed to be) a capitalist country, not a communist/socialist one.

Wyman

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You forgot the DOH, DOEd, DOE, FBI, USSC, USHOR, USS. We're a capitalist country, and all of those elements could be privatized and run much better without the government bureaucracy.

^^^ Privatization has its own evils. It's better that most government agencies just disappear.

As with all things that the government does, I believe there must be a more sinister motive behind this if it happens. Not sure what it is, but you can bet the bank that they are not doing this to help us gun owners.

If they get rid of the DEA the duties will be subsumed into the DHS. Why not - its already huge and out of control and totally unaccountable. Win-win.

If this is indeed true, now is the time to pressure Congress to eliminate this abusive and redundant agency.

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Careful what ya wish for. All those out of work Rambos will start showing up at the TSA or your local SWAT team.

Maybe Tommy Tactical can use some backup...

Back in 2002 and 2003 when the Department of Homeland Security was created they transfered ATF to Justice Department. The original plan was to eliminate ATF entirely and transfer its duties to the FBI. The NRA opposed the elimination of ATF because they were afraid that the FBI was too powerful and couldn't be hamstrung like the ATF. For example, the NRA has successfully blocked the confirmation of an ATF director for the past 5 years. Does anyone think the NRA could block the confirmation of the new FBI director over gun issues?

The ATF will not go away unless there is a plan that will help the anti-gun agenda. They will not disband the ATF because of F&F, they will disband the ATF so they can create a new agency that circumvents any problems the ATF had to enforce more gun control.

Maybe that is tin foil hat speak, but it is right up the admin's alley for "under the radar"

Bigalexe.... The BATFE's experts, or others like them, could easily be gainfully employed by other agencies of the federal government....agencies that don't have a distinct distaste for gun rights or records of grossly bumbling firearms-related cases. The BATFE has shown itself to be, time and again, incompetent and downright hostile. While David Koresh was no saint, Waco shouldn't have gone down the way it did, and Randy Weaver should still have a wife, son and dog. The Fast and Furious controversy is just the latest chapter in an agency plagued with poor judgements and major fallout from their decisions. Given the history, it would be foolish NOT to look at the ATF critically, to see what the fundamental problems are. The agency is in need to revamping at the very least, something the agency itself seems to be trying to public acknowledge with their talk of hitting the "reset" button in regards to the BATFE. Should they fail to hold up to such promises, the DOJ and COngress should take actions to force it to happen