.44 Mag or .357 mag for SHTF.

Ash_J_Williams said:

Not to be rude, but I've never seen anyone else who's definition was limited to 72 hours. Everyone else who I've seen use the term meant it indefinitely.

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Perhaps I should have made myself more clear then.

I guess I would go with 357. In general the ammo's lighter and smaller so you can take more with you. Also the 357 in general will be a lighter smaller gun, easier to take with and conceal if you needed to hide it.
Balisticially they are both excellent. The follow up shots will be faster with the 357 and its more popular clambering (357,38) to find later on that .44.

For SHTF I would go with somethign that had a higher capacity and faster follow up. Most likely a 9mm. You can get +p+ buffalo board 115 graim loads that are 500lb of energy and 1400+ fps. Its about the same as 357 mag and you could carry a bunch of rounds in 1 mag.

In my bug out bag I have a g23 with 4 loaded mags in a Remington nylon zipper locked case. totally legal for storing a firearm, but I can cut the bag open and f-opening the lock if I needed to get the gun in a hurry. Only reason the g23 is in their is because ive been carrying the 27 a lot more recently. but if I sell the 23 ill be putting a g19 in its place.

Congratulations! This thread has been hilarious thread about fictional, possibly heroic events. In preparation for this apocalypse, I have been too busy filling my basement full of MRE's, TP, water filtration equipment, canned foods, human powered generators, DC power equipment for when the grid goes off, matches, lighters, warm clothes, books for the kids to read when schools shut down, and all the other "essentials" that I just don't have time to make a reasoned opinion on which caliber of wheelgun to have. But I can say that I think we've all watched way too many post-apocalypse movies.

.357 Magnum

Original Poster's Question: .44 Mag or .357 mag for S**F (Let's call it "Troubled Times")...Given the choice would you rather have one or the other?

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Stay focused folks...

The reasons for such a scenario's occurrence are almost immaterial. The actual situation might include some (or all) of the following parameters:

A time of local, regional, or national civil unrest (riot, revolution, localized raiders or bandits)
A time of of breakdown in law and order (temporary or long term)
A time of probable weapons unavailability (retail arms & ammo stocks dried up or confiscated)
A time of possibly needing to be able to hunt for food
A time of needing to provide for your own security
A time of possibly imposed martial law
A time of locally imposed population control measures (legal or otherwise)
A time of significantly increased levels of criminal activity
A time of collapsed services & utilities delivery (EMS, trash, power, etc)
A time of collapsed retail logistics delivery (food, fuel, medicine, parts)
A time of altered terrain, temperatures, & mobility (natural disaster)

Choice might be dictated by location. If I lived in rural Alaska or open ranch land on The Great Plains...I'd probably go with the .44.

If were to go with one revolver handgun caliber for all situations, out of the two choices, I'd definitely go with a .357. In fact, I'd choose that caliber out of any available revolver choices...to include .22LR.

Most Americans cannot fathom a situation more complicated than a stereotypical CCW or Home Defense incident. Event occurs, good guy wins (doesn't he always?), and authorities are called to the scene. Incident resolved (except for court appearances & lawyers). Back to Dancing With The Stars...

The 6.6+ billion people across the rest of the world suffer through bigger and deadlier events quite frequently. 312+ million Americans are not immune to disaster...just lucky (so far).

This has been an interesting thread and have to give a tip of the hat for the mods letting it run. They normally don't even though its an interesting subject you have to go to survival forum to discuss.

Now I have to say my hands down choice would be the 38/357 caliber guns. And not because of fast follow up shots or lighter weight ammo. But just because I have so much in componants that I shouldn't have to buy anything for the rest of my life. I also have about 1400 pounds of lead and 20 bullet molds so projectiles for the 357 or 44 mag are no problem. Plus I just like shooting 38s more than light loaded 44s.

If things go south I have no plans of going anywhere. I will be hard to unseat. If there is civil unrest or riots I will just hole up here and defend the home. I have enough food and water for a couple of months. Longer if I ration it. If something like the L.A. riots came here the last place I would want to be is on the streets.

Thought I would add that I am an insurance adjuster and when hurricanes hit thats where I head to. My experience with people after a hurricane has been that neighbors pull together and help each other and share water and food.

I also suggest the 357. Most people can shoot the 357 better than the 44 because of the reduced recoil. Ammo is readily available and at a much better price.

If things go south I have no plans of going anywhere. I will be hard to unseat. If there is civil unrest or riots I will just hole up here and defend the home. I have enough food and water for a couple of months. Longer if I ration it.

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+1. I'll simply say "Although I'm not expecting a fire, I do have a fire extinguisher". Oh, and just to keep this thread on track, I would go with the .38/.357.

Don

A 4'' .357 magnum revolver is the perfect "SHTF" gun in my opinion.

Well said Chindo and USSR. There are lots of scenarios that come up when things can get hairy. It happens all over the world, every single day. People seem to thing the U.S is magically insulated from that. Newsflash, human nature,at it's very core, is the same everywhere.

It seems like the .357 is getting the most votes. I wanted to add, that out of carbine the .357 pushes a 158gr bullet close to 1900fps, which is pretty damn close ballistically to the venerable .30-30.

If truly SHTF I'm taking my 9mm. 357 is fading fast and ammo is going to be much harder to find. If between 357 or 44 revolvers I'm taking the 44. In fact I sold off all my 357's a few years ago. I am currently back to 1, when I found a great deal on a S&W 28 I couldnt pass up.

Here is why. My 629's (3" and 4") are actually lighter and easier to carry than the 686's and GP-100's I sold. With mid range loads they recoil less and in my opinion are more effective than the louder, harder kicking, 357 with it's excessive muzzle blast. If needed I can also shoot some loads that far exceed the 357's capabilities. Ammo is only slightly more expensive and I actually see more 44 ammo on store shelves than 357. Lots of 357 guns out there, but folks just don't shoot them much any more.

357 is fading fast.

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Really? You think the .357 is on it's way to extinction?

Lots of 357 guns out there, but folks just don't shoot them much any more.

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I must be the odd ball I shoot magnums out one of mine nearly weekly.

For me, .38 Special/.357 all the way. Everything from mild .38 snakeshot to full house .357s that can take down a deer in my Marlin 1894C. Jack of all trades cartridges. Versatile, lighter weight for both firearms and ammo than in the case of a .44.

Just my 2 cents.

Well, if you're thinking about longer term SHTF as in TEOTWAWKI then you should be looking at .44Mag or .45Colt with an eye to scrounging lead and remelting it into bullets and learning to make your own black powder from natural sources. Those sizes were intended for black powder and they can still cut it if supplies of smokeless go away.

..... er wait a sec...... Primers, I forgot about primers!

OK, so get yourself a nice looking and functional brace of flintlock pistols and long rifles and a round ball mold along with learn to knap flints....

ColtPythonElite said:

Really? You think the .357 is on it's way to extinction?

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ColtPythonElite said:

I must be the odd ball I shoot magnums out one of mine nearly weekly.

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I have no empirical evidence in this regard, but I find that person's contention somewhat odd myself.

I guess you and I are keeping that market afloat by ourselves...


.

A time of local, regional, or national civil unrest (riot, revolution, localized raiders or bandits)
A time of of breakdown in law and order (temporary or long term)
A time of probable weapons unavailability (retail arms & ammo stocks dried up or confiscated)
A time of possibly needing to be able to hunt for food
A time of needing to provide for your own security
A time of possibly imposed martial law
A time of locally imposed population control measures (legal or otherwise)
A time of significantly increased levels of criminal activity
A time of collapsed services & utilities delivery (EMS, trash, power, etc)
A time of collapsed retail logistics delivery (food, fuel, medicine, parts)
A time of altered terrain, temperatures, & mobility (natural disaster)

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Let me add-
A time of earthquake and nuclear meltdown
I keep hearing people say what's the chance of _______ happening? Well that's what I thought of nuclear meltdown and it happened a little too close for comfort.(I live in Tokyo) Chit happens. Even the long shots. It's best to be ready.
I like the idea of a Blackhawk convertible so you can use 9mm too. Even if it doesn't fire as fast and is slow to reload.

I vote .357. Much cheaper to buy and re-load but still good stopping power.

Given the choice would you rather have one or the other?


yes


I really don't do SHTF fantasies myself, but I figure any real suddenly serious need qualifies. I would feel just fine with either, but would most likely have 44sp loaded in the 44mag, or 38+p loaded in the other. For events longer than seconds/minutes, I would have carbines to accessorize, loaded with mag

but I am sticking with 38/357
No bug out bag. My bug in gun safes are just too heavy to carry.

No bug out bag. My bug in gun safes are just too heavy to carry.

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Now THAT is funny!

Don

Readyrod: I like the idea of a Blackhawk convertible so you can use 9mm too. Even if it doesn't fire as fast and is slow to reload.

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Excellent suggestion.

629 is great for game like deer etc,but logistically speaking,44 mag/44spec rounds are about twice the weight of 38/357 rounds.38 special/wadcutter rounds are way more plentiful.smith makes that 686 8 round 357/39,or for lightness,find a good smith 65 4 inch or 3 inch hb/round butt.find a good smith stainless 22lr for small game,ammo is light and cheap. good ar-15 or ruger mini-14 or mini 30.it's light,so is the ammo.

My vote goes to the .357... But why depend on a handgun for a SHTF weapon when a rifle or shotgun would be much better choice?

robinkevin: But why depend on a handgun for a SHTF weapon when a rifle or shotgun would be much better choice?

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Good question. As jmorris pointed out:

Some are thinking about going to the mailbox in the rain while others are getting ready to take on everyone in the next LA riot.

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If you envision some Mack Bolan post-apocalyptic environment (or even post-Katrina New Orleans), a long gun makes sense.

But...there are a lot of scenarios where a concealable handgun is the optimum choice...like for going to the mailbox in the rain in a war torn place like Brcko, Bosnia...or walking around in an economically collapsed/high crime city in Argentina...or visiting a street thug infested shopping center where you need to pickup weekly groceries during a time of shortages.

What if the stuff has hit the fan...but you are still required to go to work on a daily basis...for many months? It's not an all or nothing proposition. Most folks will still have to have a livelihood in order to have access to things that cost. Society could crumble with a slow whimper...not a bang.

In many environments, civilian open carry of a long gun might draw immediate fire (Baghdad), police arrest (streets of New Orleans), or detention and weapon confiscation (FEMA shelter). The same is likely to happen at almost any vehicular checkpoint established by .mil, LEO, or local militia / neighborhood watch.

If you are attempting to conduct shopping or barter at a local flea market or on the street during hard times, the rules may forbid open carry of your long gun. Concealed carry pistols are indicated.

Emergent barter markets are almost universally found in any 1st or 2nd World area that goes through long term economic decline or civil strife. A black market economy emerges. People have to come together at a central point to get the things that are no longer available in traditional stores. The markets (bazaars) are where everyone goes to buy, sell, and trade. Everything is available for a price and the grounds are very well controlled by whatever passes for local mafia soldiers or warlord security apparatus. The guards are heavily armed and act as bouncers with the ability to play judge, jury, and executioner. The police (if present) are either paid off by the owners of the market or are part of the enterprise. The markets are money making engines for someone important (and the local authorities they must pay off). Trade in food, goods, fuel, drugs, arms, vehicles, and human trafficking occur at these locations. Customers are welcome. Heavily armed survivalists are not.

If you belong to an armed group with enough reputation to prove the exception, everyone will already know who you are, and make allowances. Like when a US military patrol moves through an Afghan marketplace. Everyone already understands the balance of power. No harm, no foul. You have the Wasta to move freely, but you aren't there to disrupt business anyway. If they thought that was your intent, you'd have a fight on your hands.

In any event that is widespread and of long duration, there might be a time (hours, days, weeks) where nobody bats an eye at the hardware others choose to carry. When things settle down, the new "normal" will inevitably involve folks abiding by new rules. You don't walk into a Wal-Mart Super Store today to buy groceries while carrying a full combat load-out. You might get away with it for a very short period during a time of panic buying and LEOs stretched too thin to handle problems at retail stores. Weeks after the main event has passed, you'll probably not need (or even be allowed to openly carry) a riot gun and bandoleer to go find a replacement truck tire, baby formula, aspirin, .357 ammo, or AA batteries.

By yourself, you ain't strolling into a market with a bag of trade goods, plate armor, and your trusty AR-15. On the other hand, everyone assumes that everyone else has access to a pistol they can't see. No one will bother you as long as you don't show your ass and simply conduct business. Heavy weapons are "checked at the door" or left with a posted guard somewhere outside the market. It's wartime / post-wartime etiquette.

Sometimes it pays to be able to be armed but maintain a low profile.

Mid-frame .357s make for a good CCW.

As noted before, there are many interpretations/permutations of SHTF. Personally, a 72 hour event is, IMHO, nothing more than a temporary nuisance. I would recommend to all to read "One Second After" by William R. Forstchen, which was number 11 on the New York Times Best Seller List 2 years ago, and for which movie rights to are currently being discussed. And, just to keep this thread on track, it's not so important what firearm you have, as it is to have one and have ammunition for it.

Don