Bloviating About The Chiappa Rhino

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Originally Posted by Smokin Gator
The International Revolver Championships are in San Luis Obispo the first weekend in June. Would be a good test. There was one Rhino there last year. Mark

I know it's much more the shooter than the tool -- but would you recall how it did in that competition?


Pretty close to last, but unless he had a problem with the gun, I suspect it wasn't really an experienced competition shooter that used the Rhino. Mark
 
very interesting review, well written sales pitch

Color me too suspicious, but all 12 1st time posts by new member being such an obvious sales pitch for One New Product, might could be something more than just "I sure like mine".
Which is ok, of course, but it's not an approach which is ever likely to set my feet in motion towards the sales counter.

I agree that the marketing response to the ID chip issue deserves a special blunder award.

Likewise see the pitch that this be a great gun for non-shooters (people who by deliberate choice do not practice shooting) as ill advised marketing technique.
(Taurus pretty much has already worn that theme song way too thin with da' Judge & friends)

I think I will withhold any judgement on the gun itself, along with my dollars, for now.
 
Likewise see the pitch that this be a great gun for non-shooters (people who by deliberate choice do not practice shooting) as ill advised marketing technique.
(Taurus pretty much has already worn that theme song way too thin with da' Judge & friends)
Click to expand...

I'm not a first time poster but I can back up most of what the OP said. As far as the Judge comparison - the Rhino is fairly svelte and ergonomic and shoots a full power defensive load accurately. The Judge is large, clunky and shoots a marginal defensive load inaccurately. The claims might be the same, but the reasons behind it are not.
 
...Comments From the Original Poster

More... Thoughts - Clarifications - Bloviating

Yup... I wrote the review... (Original Post)

For the record... I am a 60 year old, retired computer programmer... and I have nothing to do with the firearms industry... I have no ties or financial interest in, or connections with, Chiappa of any other firearms manufacturer, distributor, dealer or publisher... I am selling nothing... except reality... I own a lot of guns and have been a range, trap and skeet shooter for 45 years...

My intent is to promote the design concept of the Bottom Barreled Revolver (BBR)... and not so much to promote the Rhino itself... But the reality is that at this time, the Rhino is the only game in town... But the more attention that the Rhino gets and the greater the sales of the Rhino are, then the more likely it will be that S&W, Ruger, Colt or Taurus may produce a competing product... Remember, first the Taurus "Judge", then along came the competing S&W "Governor"...

This latest BBR concept has resulted in a handgun that is very easy to learn to shoot CONSISTENTLY WELL... and allows the average person to put several shots, from a proven man stopper cartridge, onto a nearby target... and do so quickly and repeatedly... WITHOUT going to the range every week...

Sure... more practice is always better, with almost any tool... but most shooters, and current handgun carriers, simply DO NOT spend enough time practicing... so they need all the help they can get...

With a Rhino, those of you that are really good shooters, and love to practice, will end up being able to shoot the individual buttons off the bad guys shirt, while he and you are running, full speed, through a plowed field... (well OK maybe it is not quite that good... ;) )

It would be great if we were all training 3 days a week in live-fire adversarial simulations... But then most of us are not Navy Seals...

So, give me a small handgun, that fires a .357 Magnum, and yet lets me control it like I am shooting a 22LR, then I'll be smart enough to know that I should be carrying that weapon... Why???... Because I am not a continually trained and practiced Navy Seal... and if that “terrible” moment ever comes, I WANT ALL THE HELP I CAN GET...

If you are 100% certain that you can fire 3 shots in 3 seconds into a moving 9 inch paper plate at just 15 feet AND while imagining the plate shooting back at you, no hearing protection, screaming all around you, and several innocent bystanders down range from the target area (who’ll be hit if you miss the plate)... If you are "good" with all that... then you certainly don’t need a Rhino...

If you get a chance, try a RHINO revolver... I think you will be surprised...

Please try to fire 2 boxes of ammo through a Rhino... It takes 100 rounds to really understand the dynamics of what is going on... and by then you won't believe what a great shot you have suddenly become... (I hope that now someone doesn't accuse me of selling ammo... ;) )

In an attempt to perform better with our handguns, we all do things... like - change grips, change sights, add scopes, port barrels, modify triggers... Why??? All to put a bullet downrange with better, and rapidly repeatable, accuracy... The Rhino will help this occur for you “naturally”, with the help of the laws of physics...

BTW... Someone mentioned the "Judge"... I have no idea what the Taurus "Judge" could actually be the recommended for... Other than a collectors item...

Lastly... If S&W, Ruger, Colt or even Taurus had come out with the Rhino it would already be a major hit in the marketplace, because the firearms media would have massively promoted it because it came from one of their major advertisers... (remember the Judge, the LCP, the LCR, the XDm, etc...)

For those that missed it earlier:

This link will get you to thousands of pictures of the Rhino Revolver...
http://www.google.com/search?q=rhin...v&sa=X&ei=8Y7DTubOAuTm0QGdkeGSDw&ved=0CB0QsAQ

This link will take you to dozens of Videos about the Rhino at YouTube...
http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...l7967l0l8442l14l14l0l0l0l0l196l1953l4.10l14l0
 
THINK M16...!!! Eugene Stoner designed the M16 with a line of sight 2 inches above the barrel, this was to lower the line of recoil to directly into the shoulder and thus limiting the off-target muzzle rise... This is one of the main reasons that the M16 is so controllable, and that the AR15 has developed such a huge following...This design should be called a LBR (Low Barreled Rifle)...
Click to expand...

As someone that is proficient with revolvers and the M16/M4, that is a poor comparison.

The M16 at point blank range WILL shoot 2" low if the sights are zeroed at 25 meters. The ONLY way that the sights work with the 2" difference is because the shooter zeros them. With a handgun at point blank range or out to typical handgun ranges, having the sites an inch higher than the barrel equals a 1" offset on Point Of Aim. This could be critical and equal a miss.
 
I too am interested in a Rhino. I'd like a snub version in black. Would that be the 20DS? As far as size goes, how do these compare to the current S&W 442/642 5 shot snubs?

Also, I've poked around and can't find any Rhinos in the $650 range.
 
Lightsped said:
I too am interested in a Rhino. I'd like a snub version in black. Would that be the 20DS? As far as size goes, how do these compare to the current S&W 442/642 5 shot snubs?

Also, I've poked around and can't find any Rhinos in the $650 range.
Click to expand...
Used $499 (Starting Bid)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260853426

New $649 (Starting Bid)
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260698441

New $686 (Free shipping, to Tax, In Stock)
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/product_info.php/products_id/411546227

I bought one from Buds... a 200D - NOT a DS (I would not buy a current model DS)

The Rhino dimensions and weight are in my review... The S&W specifications are on their site... But you are comparing apples to oranges... the S&W 442/642 are J-Frame revolvers (Small) the Rhino is a Mid-Frame revolver not a Small...

The controllability of a J-frame 357 and a Rhino are not even "on the same planet"...
 
Enthusiasm for whatever you like is easily understood, but...

"be very effective in its use, every time, even if they shot just a single box of ammo once a year."
real, real bad bet, betting on any magic gun or any magic bullet, no matter what it is

"most shooters, and current handgun carriers, simply DO NOT spend enough time practicing... so they need all the help they can get..."
TRUE statement, but the help they most need cannot be bought in a box, any box

"all training 3 days a week in live-fire adversarial simulations... But then most of us are not Navy Seals..."
No, we are not, but it is terribly naive to not recognize the vast gap in between Seal training and 50 rounds or less a year. Most of us are fully capable of finding a reasonable middle ground.

It takes a mighty leap of faith to suppose that hardware is somehow a substitute for responsible behavior, and it ought be acknowledged that carrying a firearm ought carry personal responsibilities along with it. Spinning the notion that people can or should ignore that, and just "buy magic in a box" is not something that I can empathize with, no matter what too many may do or not do, no matter who is selling the pitch, or why.

I am happy you like your gun.
I am happy if more people like 'em and buy 'em.
(I wouldn't hold my breath waiting on Colt or Springfield to jump on it, though)

If it is 'zero recoil', fine. Encourage people to buy 'em by touting no-pain high round count practice sessions, not "no practice required". Practice is good, sell practice along with selling the gun. You may not be able to sell both, or either, but that's no good reason to not try.

Enjoy
Be well, shoot well, and always mind your backstop
 
I won't be getting one. I'm happy with the barrel up top as far away from my hands as possible. The claimed benefits don't outweigh that one big drawback for me.

John
 
I am with you, JohnBT
besides, one ragged hole is one ragged hole; that old fashioned stuff still works pretty good
(practice required)

now, if somebody would do something in a small frame all STEEL DA gun with an LCR type trigger, I would probably just have to give it a whirl
 
kludge said:
I'm curious what will happen when the cylinder and the top... er... bottom strap blows, and whether this was or wasn't part of the engineering and development and if it wasn't, why wasn't it. It must have been proof tested somewhere along the way, right?

I'm guessing that the first person who finds out will lose a finger or three.
Click to expand...
Good point. That happens ALL the time with other revolver designs:rolleyes:
 
Went to the National Gun Show in Chantilly, VA, this past weekend.

Not that I expected to see one -- but not a Chiappa Rhino (or any other revolver of that make) in sight.

It's pretty evident that the whole country has gone semiauto-crazy. The array of semiautos seem to outnumber wheel-guns about 15-to-1.

Which is not necessarily a down-side for us wheel-gun fans -- it does make it easier to pick one's way through the show... :p

Don't want to hijack this thread, but just to mention that I stumbled on a S&W Governor for $579 (a great price locally). My wife shooed me away, and the next thing I know, she'd filled out the paperwork and wished me an "early Merry Christmas"... yahoo.gif


.


.
 
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... REPLY: To several posters...

oldfool said:
I am with you, JohnBT
besides, one ragged hole is one ragged hole; that old fashioned stuff still works pretty good
(practice required)

now, if somebody would do something in a small frame all STEEL DA gun with an LCR type trigger, I would probably just have to give it a whirl
Click to expand...
The BBR design "might" be more dangerous in a catastrophic failure... I don't know... But I am certain that the width of the frame bottom directly under the cylinder is over twice as wide on the Rhino as it is on the J-Frame or LCR... (it's almost twice that of a K-Frame)

Also, until I actually know of a Rhino really having a catastrophic failure it is very hard for me to factor what "has never happened" into any logical decision making...

There were over 32,000 traffic fatalities in the U.S. during 2010... Therefore, I assume that those of you that won't own a Rhino "for your safety" do NOT own those deadly automobiles, and you certainly would never operate one of those "proven deadly" machine designs...

IMHO - "Life is a set of Possibilities, Probabilities and Odds... but the inevitable end result is always the same..." ~TMBS~ 2011

As for the LCR having a desirable trigger... I have a LCR-357... and in a direct comparison both of my Rhinos have a slightly "better" DA action then my LCR (and yes, the LCR is VERY GOOD)... The Rhino is a bit smother, a little less hump, and a noticeably crisper and flatter release... the average pull weight is very close on both types, but the perceived pull on the Rhino is about 2 pounds less because the trigger face is almost 1/2 inch wide...

Remember, there has been some major changes in the Rhino trigger system... "early" versions are terrrible... current DAO Model-D types are now great... I am not sure at what serial number these changes were made... but mine are both in the 2800's and are in the "great" category...

I reiterate my position... (I know that Buy and Try rhyme but they are not the same)... I don't care if you ever BUY a BBR... but if you have the chance... Please... Do yourself a favor, and TRY a BBR...
 
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Stage one trigger

Ladies and Gentlemen,

According to my contact at Chiappa’s Dayton facility, Stage One Trigger Kits have been installed on all Chiappa Rhino revolvers since serial number RH 01900.

Ron Norton, President of Chiappa USA, has stated: “I have a Stage 1 kit installed in my personal gun, a 2” DAO version of the Rhino. Even though the Stage 1 claims a reduction to 10-12 pounds DA pull, with a little extra work, my Rhino has a silky smooth 7 pound DA pull and I have found no ammo that it won’t ignite.” I am not sure what that extra work is and who does it, but it’s apparent that one can customize the trigger pull with a little effort.

I have had the opportunity to test the trigger pull on the 200D (with the factory-installed Stage One Trigger Kit but without Norton's aforementioned adjustment) and found it to be smooth and easy. Even though the trigger pull was probably in the ten to twelve pound range, it seemed much less. Perhaps the wide, flat surface of the trigger contributes to the perception of an easy pull.

In a previous hyperlink of assorted videos posted by TheMrBillShow, there is this PR video of Chiappa’s Italy facility. In it they mention proof testing their product as part of their quality control. It would appear that any concern related to risk of blowing out the bottom of a cylinder has to rank with winning the lottery or walking across a street. In terms of risk management, anyone concerned about this kind of event must not have much to worry about.

In addition to the barrel being aligned to the bottom of the cylinder, another feature I like about the Rhino is the ability to fire either .357 Magnum and .38 Special caliber cartridges. This allows me to select a cartridge that delivers a muzzle energy from its two-inch barrel from as low as 160 ft-lb, to as high as 650 ft-lb. The obvious benefit is finding a cartridge that produces the best recoil for my use.

I find the Chiappa Rhino to be one exceptionally, well-designed revolver and will be adding one to my collection soon.
 
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support the innovators

To: MrBillShow,
I for one applaud your first post (review) very heartily. I also believe the Rhino is revolutiuonary. I thought of this layout maybe ten years ago, but have no way of developing it, and am a little afraid of building something without the right knowledge beforehand. I love that the Rhino has hit the market, and that a few, at least (like you) like the concept and results. My ONLY criticism of the design is the great number of internal parts to achieve the end result (and maybe the use of alloys other than steel). I too hope that other makers put their toes into this water, and perhaps design the internals somewhat more simply.
Again, hurrah for you for your courage.
 
From a "weapon effectiveness" standpoint it is like comparing a "club" to a "crossbow"...
Click to expand...

I've enjoyed reading the comments on this thread, and I'm sure that the Rhino is a good gun with many merits.

The problem, as I see it, is that although the revolver (as a category of firearm) may still be very popular, it's still somewhat old school when compared to advanced modern semi-autos. Most Police officers don't carry revolvers anymore. When my friend got on with the FBI in the late 80's/early 90's, they were still issuing their agents model 13's or 19's or something. Those are and always will be beautiful guns, but they're old school when compared to the best of modern semi-autos. (I should mention, I STILL like revolvers better than semi-autos, so I'm not saying this out of personal bias.)

So your analogy may be appropriate...the Rhino may be the modern equivalent of a revolutionary advancement in crossbows, but since the crossbow is no longer the weapon of the future, the revolution isn't all that revolutionary. Now if they could make a revolver that shoots 20 rounds at a time, that would be revolutionary.

I don't dislike something just because it's different; I love old Studebaker cars, but I see the RHINO as more likely being something that's cool and unique and innovative than something that's earth-shattering.
 
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Jframe said:
Went to the National Gun Show in Chantilly, VA, this past weekend.

Not that I expected to see one -- but not a Chiappa Rhino (or any other revolver of that make) in sight.
Click to expand...

There was one seller who had a bunch to the left just as you entered the door. Really good prices too. It's the second time I've seen them at that show (same table location).
 
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