How Many Carry a 1911 with FMJ Ammo?

KodiakBeer wrote,
Again, I think an interesting thread could be produced in the hunting forum asking for anecdotes from those who hunt hogs and deer with a .357. I say .357 because it's very commonly used in both hunting and self defense.

I don't think you'll find many hunters using round nosed FMJ's for the purpose, but it would be interesting to hear of any personal experiences.

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I think you do make an interesting point.

If you are hunting pigs with the .357, are you using 125gr HP's or bullets 158 gr (and up) and do you lean towards HP's or semi-wadcutters?

If you are shooting little (sub 100 pound pigs) up close, where the .357 mag is more than enough for the task at hand, does it matter much what bullet you are using?

If you are shooting very large pigs, where the .357 mag may be marginal for the task, where you are thinking, "gee I should have brought the rifle", are you more likely to choose the high energy rapid expanding bullet, or the heavier deeper penetrating bullet?

Combine both. Lee Jurras used to do that with the .44 magnum, and, he shot nearly everything on the planet with the .44.
His secret was altering the bullet construction to the game he was hunting. With 180 grain bullets, when he was faced with big game, he used pretty much silouhette bullets,
a small HP, with a very thick jacket, that doesn't expand.

JTQ's link explains why these bullets penetrate straighter and more consistently then the
FMJ's, or HPs when they expand.


http://www.gsgroup.co.za/articlepvdw.html

I always felt that if the 200 grain .45 Hps didn't expand, at 1200 fps they are
still going to cut a big wound channel.

Likewise if I can take a 200 grain flat point, get it to feed reliably, at 1200 fps, I'm good with that.

As far as expense, I don't see why you cant' find a 200-260 grain LFN
that feeds. Cast bullets would allow way more practice.

Anyone have a bullet maker that makes large quantities of .45 ACP/colt bullets that feed reliabily in 1911's LFN's or truncated cones, for a reasonable price? Have to be cast hard enough not to lead.

Jim Cooper:

I remember playing with Hornady's 185 grain truncated cone, and, Speers
185 grain HP. Neither was a favorite for one reason, lack of a crimp groove, and the possibility of the bullets moving under recoil. I'm sure someone has come up with a better design, since.

David E:
Which Speer bullet penetrates 22"?

Guess I'm going to look for more bullets...

These look REALLY good:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/53...eter-200-grain-lead-semi-wadcutter-box-of-500

Fish has numerous issues making it difficult to pinpoint the conviction. Polling jurors is not a precedent.

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That wasn't my point. That being that it will be introduced...right or wrong and whether it has any bearing on the outcome or not...and that it's just one more thing to have to explain and/or justify. Remember that the average juror's understanding of firearms and ballistics comes from TV cop shows...and we all know what sort of spin that most of those put on the question.

I'm not trying to sway anyone. Your choice is your choice and mine is mine.

The really sad part is Fish picked an excellent choice for a trail gun, against dogs, yotes, etc. 10 MM.

The fact that hollowpoints were sold as a bad thing by the DA, when they are
industry LEO standard now is a major concern.

The fact that hollowpoints were sold as a bad thing by the DA, when they are
industry LEO standard now is a major concern.

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Yes it is. In an ideal world, a good shoot would be a good shoot and whatever is used in a good shoot would be inadmissible...but it's not an ideal world. The object of the exercise is winning the case...not seeing to it that justice is served. The prosecutor wants a conviction. It looks good on his resume' and...like any politician...the next election is always in the back of his mind.

Prosser said:

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David E:
Which Speer bullet penetrates 22"?
]

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In Post #144 I cite a couple instances of Speer Gold Dots. The one I think you're curious about is the .45 +P 200 JHP

I don't think you'll find many hunters using round nosed FMJ's for the purpose, but it would be interesting to hear of any personal experiences.

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Last year, I watched a buddy shoot a 130 lb hog 11 times with FMJ out of his Kimber 1911. Eventually, the hog died.

I was glad the hog wasn't armed and shooting at me all that time!!

Hogs have a serious shoulder blade that is tough to penetrate. I wouldn't try it with a .45 at all, at least not on a big one. If I was carrying for defense against hogs, the pistol I would prefer would be a rifle. If I HAD to use a pistol, I would try to have a 10mm with hard cast loads.

I have to admit...

I am surprised by the outcome of this thread.

I guess I am in the minority. I carry with JHP, because my 1911s work fine with any ammo (including my SWC hand loads). If they didn't, I'd do the same as I do with any other piece of equipment--fix or sell them (with full disclosure, as I have in the past).

1911's not feeding JHP reliably is EXTREMELY common.

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Not in my experience--"only" about 25 1911s in the last 25 years.
--I've had a few that wouldn't function properly (mostly FTRB) with any type of ammo. Usually extractor-related.
--I own a 10mm CBOB that had various issues, all of which have (I think/hope) finally been resolved.
--Persistent light primer strikes (two different EMPs).

I trust my 1911s to run with JHP ammo....because they have proven themselves to do so, and I see no reason not to take advantage of that fact.

Best regards, and Happy Thanksgiving,
Rich

I have had good luck shooting JHP in my 1911's. Even my Norinco shoots them with no problem.
However, when I was considering getting a Rock Island compact, my research found that some handled JHP's...some didn't...but they could be sent in to the manufacturer to be massaged into using them...for a price.
I bought the Glock 30, instead, which feeds anything out of the box.
While my SD pistols are loaded with JHP for carry, I often carry a reload mag of FMJ.

The only good reason to carry FMJ instread of hollow-points is because your pistol will not operate with hollow-points.

Personally, I would refuse to carry any pistol that will not operate with hollow-points.



Worse case scenario: the hollow-points fail to expand and the rounds perform as a FMJ.

Best case scenario: the hollow-points expand as designed and the rounds cause more damage to the target that a FMJ would.

I didn't read the whole eight pages but I carry my round nosed plated handloads when I carry my 1911. I don't think it really matters with a .45.

I didn't read the whole eight pages but I carry my round nosed plated handloads when I carry my 1911. I don't think it really matters with a .45.

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9mm FMJ does more damage than .45 ACP FMJ according to the gel test I posted a bit back. It matters more with .45 ACP than 9mm.

"9mm FMJ does more damage than .45 ACP FMJ according to the gel test I posted a bit back. It matters more with .45 ACP than 9mm."

...but remember that is just gel...the heavier bullets (.45s) fair better when there are bones in the mix...

...lots of "issues" that can come into play with handgun bullets and defensive use with them that'll make one better in this situation and another better in another situation, thing is, you'll never know exactly what that situation will be...bottom line, it's shot placement with adequate penetration - choose your ammunition to suit yourself - but all things considered, the .45 230 FMJ isn't a bad choice especially when launched from a 1911 style pistol...

I've heard from various 1911 owners (I'm not a 1911 owner myself) that FMJ feeds the most reliably in 1911s. I also don't see a problem with the big, fat .45ACP round having too much trouble stopping people with FMJ ammo. Carry ball ammo at will.

FMJ feeds the most reliably in 1911s

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How much more reliable than 100% do you want to get? If I shoot 200 WWB 230 grain FMJs with zero failures, then shoot 200 Remington GS 230 grain BJHPs with zero failures, they're both as reliable as the other. The HP also happens to perform better against an adversary than the FMJ round.

I carry some now but only because I need to function test some Hornady xtps and I've been busy.

Today I rounded up a lot of odds and ends, loose rounds, partial boxes, old HSTs, old WWB FMJ, and shot several mags of mixed loads. Clarification, I shot some of them, I gave the rest of them to my wife to shoot a 1911 for the first time ever. Nary a hiccup.

I do tend to have gunsmiths check my 1911's before I shoot them. Usually because I want the springs setup differently, and the ramp checked. Both Kimbers had machine marks in the feed ramp that needed removing. Might have worked fine with them, but didn't see a reason for the wasted time and frustration.

I've had more problems with Kimber parts, extractors, MIM safties, and slide stops, and cheap magazines that flare out at the top so much they lock in place in the gun, and have to be pounded out.

My point is it's who makes the gun, what parts they put in it, and how well its put together.

New ammunition hasn't been a problem. The 1000 rounds of 230 grain lead hard cast
ball ammo I just had loaded I hope won't be, either.

Here's my point, made for me in the last 8 pages: what do you train with?

Most everyone who picks HPs has stated they "carry" HPs. Fine, but if you're training with xx brand 230gr. ball realize that it's POI may be different than the hot 1XX gr. JHP you are taking to carry.

Training ammo. for head shots. Make your headshots. Carry what you train with.

I have found that as long as the weight is the same, the difference is negligible, if noticeable at all. I always use 230 gr.

I don't expect miracle expansion with JHP's at standard velocities, so FMJ's and their reliability and superior pentration is a good enough choice, in my opinion.

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A JHP that might expand is better than a FMJ that will never expand. =P

For everything else just carry a CCW grenade.

I carry HP's as well. With another clip full of ball ammo. You never know...

I think I'm going to spring for a box or two of the 255 grain Buffalobore hard cast, in .45 Super...

A JHP that might expand is better than a FMJ that will never expand. =P

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This!

I've only killed one deer with a handgun and that was with a 45 acp 165 grain Hydra-Shok - the Federal Reduced Recoil offering. One deer is just an anecdote and doesn't prove anything. BUT, I happened to have a Kimber compact in my pack as a "coop-de-grassy" pistol while blackpowder hunting. I shot at a blacktail buck with my Hawken (missed, but I didn't know it then) who ran a little ways and then stopped about 75 yards away. I dug out my .45 and took a shot and hit him broadside right behind the shoulder - perfect hit. He went down right there. His head came up, but by the time I reached him he was dead. Blacktails are smallish deer, but the bullet had pierced a rib, crossed the chest and stopped under the hide on the far side. The slug had expanded perfectly, though I no longer recall what the exact size was. The shot pretty much destroyed both lungs.

I only mention this as anecdote because one kill is just one kill. Still, I don't think an FMJ would have collapsed that deer like this Hydra-Shok did. If the Hydra-Shok had failed to expand, it would have been no worse than an FMJ.

I'm going to carry hollow points in my defense pistols, no matter the caliber.

I am curious, after 8 pages of discussion, has anyone changed their mind?

I know I haven't. I am still gonna carry FMJ.