CCW permit holder killed with own handgun

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RNB65

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Sadly, a law abiding citizen was killed with his own handgun here a few days ago. It's not clear if he was carrying concealed or open, but a 16 year old thug with a long criminal history snatched his handgun out of his holster and shot him during the ensuing struggle.

The same thug committed another murder during another robbery a few hours later. Probably with the same stolen handgun. Thank you juvenile justice system for allowing this scum back onto the streets after multiple felony convictions in 2010.

I suggest that anyone open carrying should use a level 2 or 3 active retention holster. It's too easy to lose control of your weapon with only a passive retention holster.

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/...rged-in-2-south-richmond-killings-ar-1502468/
 
training doesn't guarantee success, there are several experiences of trained LEOs that have lost their weapons to suspects
 
Why does it sound like he didn't have any training?

I have training and likely wouldn't do well against two men in a physical altercation.
 
The linked story said they don't know for certain if it was his own gun or not.

“At this point, we cannot confirm that he was shot with his gun.”
 
I don't know about you guys, but when my space bubble is encroached upon, SOP is to stop, meet eyes, and prepare for engagement. I scared a guy running between cars a couple of weekends ago. He was just cutting through the rows and didn't expect to see me react so quickly to his approach. He deserved it. You never know what these idiots will try.
 
RNB65 said:
I suggest that anyone open carrying should use a level 2 or 3 active retention holster. It's too easy to lose control of your weapon with only a passive retention holster.
Click to expand...

Why did you single out open carriers? You said yourself:

RNB65 said:
It's not clear if he was carrying concealed or open, but a 16 year old thug with a long criminal history snatched his handgun out of his holster and shot him during the ensuing struggle.
Click to expand...

Concealment is not retention.
 
If it's CC, nobody knows it's there unless you attempt to draw. It can't be snatched if it's presence is unknown.

An OC right out there for all to see. Maybe it's a deterrent, and thugs will just go elsewhere, or maybe the thug thinks, "I can snatch that."
 
Unfortunately, the good guys lose sometimes. Coming from a family full of law enforcement officers, we are all too aware of the risks that a perpetrator might gain control of the good guy's gun.

Doesn't mean we should stop training to avoid being victims. Doesn't mean that the carry community or the law enforcement community ought to stop carrying.

Just means train harder, be more aware, fight for every second of your life.

But, again, sometimes the bad guys win. It's an ugly truth Hollywood hides quite well.
 
Concealment is not retention.
Click to expand...

It's probably a good idea for both open and concealed carriers to use retention holsters, but it's the open carriers who are more likely to have their gun snatched, simply because it's obvious that they're carrying a gun. As long as a gun is concealed, it's highly unlikely that anyone will attempt to snatch that which they cannot know is there.
 
Sometimes you eat the bear, sometimes the bear eats you. :(

There isn't enough information to know what, if anything, the victim "did wrong."

Authorities said the two suspects followed Tyler into the BP station and that Tyler’s gun was taken from his holster during a struggle, even though Tyler had not drawn his weapon on the assailants.
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“Tyler’s handgun was taken from his person, and within 30 seconds he was shot with a handgun,” Johnson said. “At this point, we cannot confirm that he was shot with his gun.”
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Tyler had a concealed-carry permit, and his wife, Sophia Tyler, said he took a gun almost everywhere he went, usually in a holster that he concealed with his clothes.
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We don't know if he was even shot with his own gun, or if he was carrying concealed or openly at that particular time. In any event, in no way, shape or form should this tragic incident be construed as not to carry because it would do no good anyway.
 
The linked story said they don't know for certain if it was his own gun or not.
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That's an old article. More details have come out since then.

It was his gun. The kid (Toby Smith, Jr) was unarmed but walked up behind Tyler in a busy convenience store and grabbed his gun before Tyler even knew he was there. Don't know if he was OC'ing or just using poor concealment. Tyler chased the kid around the store and was shot in the chest. Smith then shot and killed another man a few hours later in a street robbery. It has not been revealed yet if the second murder was done with the first victim's gun.
 
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Note to self: If someone snatches your gun, do not pursue.
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I was thinking the same thing myself. But back when I carried (before moving to the socialist state of Illinois) 99% of the time I carried 2. .45 in a shoulder rig and a .38 wheel gun in a paddle holster in the small of my back. Both would be pretty damn difficult to "snatch". Retention is 100% of the game when carrying. SA is to be maintained at all times weather carrying or not but even MORE so when carrying.
 
Just think---If this savage is tried as a juvenile---he will be back on the street in less
than 5 years---I don't trust our courts.
 
Just think---If this savage is tried as a juvenile---he will be back on the street in less
than 5 years---I don't trust our courts
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Honestly, there is no reason for him to be tried as a juvenile. He knew good and well his intentions when he purposefully took that man's gun out of his holster and killed him. He acted as an adult, he should be tried as an adult. And he should be convicted as an adult.

Even though he is 14, I would like to see a life in prison sentence handed down.
 
Here's another article

http://www2.timesdispatch.com/news/...e-suspects-had-felony-convictions-ar-1510369/

"Tyler, 48, had a concealed-carry permit, but his handgun was plainly visible that night in his holster, Johnson said.

"The suspects walk in and one immediately reached for Mr. Tyler's gun," Johnson said. Tyler did not draw his weapon."​

[sarcasm]The article must be wrong. I've read repeatedly on the internet that this could never happen because crooks never attack people who have handguns visible on their persons.[/sarcasm]

Seriously, this kind of thing is never going to be a likely outcome of carrying a handgun, but as this incident demonstrates it can happen.
 
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olav_a said:
Sounds like he didn't have any training.
Click to expand...

Shovelhead said:
Being armed is not a substitute for situational awareness.
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And being well armed, well trained and on top of your situational awareness doesn't mean you win 100% of the time.

One of the sobering things most of us who carry need to keep in mind that it doesn't matter if you train like a grand master and keep your head constantly on a swivel, when your number's up your number's up.


For every story like this there's a thousand of some untrained average joe successfully defending themselves with a gun. The anti gun MSM is going to ignore this truth as well, we should be better than that here.
 
hrmmm......what are y'alls thoughts on firearm lanyards in a situation like this?

would they have been likely to help with weapon retention at all?
 
JohnKSa said:
[sarcasm]The article must be wrong. I've read repeatedly on the internet that this could never happen because crooks never attack people who have handguns visible on their persons.[/sarcasm]
Click to expand...

Sarcasm or not, I've never read that on the internet. What I have read is people who claim it will always happen to every person who open carries...
 
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