Mystery company buying up U.S. gun manufacturers

Typical stuff from folks. We love small businesses and cheer for their success until they are too good, like Wal Mart, then we hate them.

Same here. We cheer on gun manufacturer growth until they get big then some start to imagine they must have some motive besides simply making money.

Good article.

Freedom Group owns many gun manufacturers and Cerberus has owned Freedom Group for quite awhile. I think Remington was the last big manufacturer they bought and that is probably why articles are starting to pop up.

Pretty scarey when you think about it

Hasn't this been debunked numerous times?

Hasn't this been debunked numerous times?

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Read the article, this one is true, and it's not bad at all.

It's actually a good sign in my opinion. As the article says, the idea of large investment groups owning "politically incorrect" things like gun makers was at one time thought to scare off investors. Now it's a money maker and people are interested.

the myth is that George Soro's one of the democratic money men, and 10 worlds richest men, is buying up US gun makers using proxi's like Cerberus and Freedom group.

Some people just love a good paranoid conspiracy no matter how untrue it is. I guess one example of the secret liberal gun grabbers running Cerberus is Dan Quayle, yeah that Dan Quayle, who is Chairman of their Global Investment Division.

TexasRifleman said:

Typical stuff from folks. We love small businesses and cheer for their success until they are too good, like Wal Mart, then we hate them.

Same here. We cheer on gun manufacturer growth until they get big then some start to imagine they must have some motive besides simply making money.

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From what I've seen, it isn't the success that makes people hate them, but the unethical things they do in their position of success. Things like dishonest labor policies, etc.

We do the same for gun manufacturers, like when S&W and Ruger surrendered to anti-gun sentiments.

Great well balanced article. I've read several regarding this very issue and can say that I was somewhat dismayed at the ignorance displayed by the other articles.

Me? I'm neutral in that I'm a free market kinda believer. I see opportunity if they stumble or worse. Being large has many advantages and many disadvantages as well.

LOL! Mystery? No mystery at all. Solid business model. Buy undervalued companies, turn them around if they are in distress, and make lots of money.

I've never worried about them trying to dismantle the industry from within.

My concerns are the destruction of legendary firearm brands like Remington and Marlin, the same way Harley suffered when AMF bought them.

Big investment firms try to restructure and cost cut (understandably), but they do so as blind bean counters. No regard for quality. If they keep churning out the junk they have been lately, they'll have killed these great names.

texas rifleman writes:

Typical stuff from folks. We love small businesses and cheer for their success until they are too good

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and it's not bad at all.

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they are a company that was apart of the bail outs. they owned part of chrysler. They recieved tax dollars as apart of the bail out debacle. They pull strings we couldnt even understand. they buy remington and now NY is allowed to manufacture silencers. (formally illegal) Civilians can't own or even handle them but remington can now legally produce them. But they are no mystery look them up decide for yourself. I wouldnt disparage people for having a questionable opinion of them.

I've never worried about them trying to dismantle the industry from within.

My concerns are the destruction of legendary firearm brands like Remington and Marlin

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Brands come and go. Sadly, some are cherished, but they must adapt or die.

It's kind of sad, but the "bean counters" actually DO know what they're doing in this regard. The reality is in today's market quality DOESN'T SELL. At least not quality like what we were used to. People want mass produced goods with a price tag to match. They also often chew through hobbies so fast that as long as something works the way it supposed to for a while then it'll probably just in up unused in a few months anyways and nobody will care about long term durability.

We just happen to care about firearms a lot, but even we fall into that trap when we move to something you're less passionate about. Take cycling (bicycles, not motorcycles) for example. Unless you're into the scene, I'd bet most people here would consider it a waste to spend more than $150 on a bike. Having been a part of that hobby for a while though, I can tell you that for the people that truly are into it, the basic STARTER bikes they look at are around $700 (with "good" bikes costing well into the $1000's). Anything less is a childrens toy that isn't even worth looking at. And they're complaining about the big buyout investors killing Schwinn just like we're complaining about Remington.

All in perspective. As to any INTENTIONAL destruction of brands like the conspiracy theories suggest though, I wouldn't worry much. If they killed ever existing firearms company in the industry more would spring up if there was a market for it. Capitalism ensures that where there is market demand, it will be met.

I'm neutral in that I'm a free market kinda believer

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Was the "to big to fail" concept free market?

I've never worried about them trying to dismantle the industry from within.

My concerns are the destruction of legendary firearm brands like Remington and Marlin, the same way Harley suffered when AMF bought them.

Big investment firms try to restructure and cost cut (understandably), but they do so as blind bean counters. No regard for quality. If they keep churning out the junk they have been lately, they'll have killed these great names.

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Well stated and completely true...

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It's kind of sad, but the "bean counters" actually DO know what they're doing in this regard

I've yet to meet an accountant that could find a business plan with a flashlight and a map. They simply make recommendations regarding he bottom line, it's up to the board or owner(s) to implement or not. If the board or owner(s) have no long term plan, just want to turn a quick profit, the business will crash and burn.

Exhibit A: "Remlin" rifles. A beancounter came up with it, the board adopted it, quality suffered. Time will tell if they judged our desire for affordability and quality correctly.

1911 guy

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It's kind of sad, but the "bean counters" actually DO know what they're doing in this regard

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I've yet to meet an accountant that could find a business plan with a flashlight and a map. They simply make recommendations regarding he bottom line, it's up to the board or owner(s) to implement or not. If the board or owner(s) have no long term plan, just want to turn a quick profit, the business will crash and burn.

Exhibit A: "Remlin" rifles. A beancounter came up with it, the board adopted it, quality suffered. Time will tell if they judged our desire for affordability and quality correctly.

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Our entire senior management team (C-Level) and most of the VPs and Directors are former bean counters. Yes, I am part of that group. Sales are in the 10 figures... We've thrived while our competitors folded during the Great Recession/Depression.

Quality is only one component of the business model. If a company's success only depended on product quality, Taurus and Hi Point would be no more. As long as you have a decent (read ok) product and can offset its shortcomings with marketing, customer service, and value the model will work. Case in point, Ed Brown guns are top of the line, but I seriously doubt they ever make it into the 10 figure range unless they were gobbled up by a conglomerate or a big fish in the industry.

I am not an elitist by any means (my old man was a welder and my mom worked in the shipping & receiving dept of a metal shop), but some of these folks who spew these types of conspiracy theories need to learn to do research before they pass more crap onto the uninformed.

Am I saying that there are no conspiracies? Nope. Just that in the case of an evil corporation backed by George Soros gobbling up the gun industry in order to prevent civilians from owning firearms is questionable at best.

Exhibit A: "Remlin" rifles. A beancounter came up with it, the board adopted it, quality suffered. Time will tell if they judged our desire for affordability and quality correctly.

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As you say, only time will tell but I honestly don't see how Marlin will survive on its current course.

For example, everyone says that S&W revolvers are not what they used to be and quality isn't the same, yet S&W still commands a premium price and still maintains a strong market share. They seem to have struck a good balance between production cost and production quality in the current consumer environment. If half the horror stories about Remington produced Marlin guns are true, they have cut way too much quality, to the point where the thing they bought (the Marlin name) is rapidly becoming worthless.

Can the marque really survive with only the gun-ignorant as a one-time customer base, and no repeat business?

I've yet to meet an accountant that could find a business plan with a flashlight and a map. They simply make recommendations regarding he bottom line, it's up to the board or owner(s) to implement or not. If the board or owner(s) have no long term plan, just want to turn a quick profit, the business will crash and burn.

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Agreed 100%

1)Buy a well known and highly respected brand
2)figure out how to cut manufacturing costs to an absolute minimum, regardless of how quality suffers
3)Ride on the company's reputation for quality as long as it survives
4)When sales start to drop as the consumers catch on, lay every possible employee off, withdraw all shares, liquidate or bankrupt what's left.

I see Cerberus as quite likely to do this. Maybe the companies will survive, but it'll take years (decades, probably) for them to recover.

MachIVshooter:

In that box you highlighted, the last sentence says that companies whose only objective is a quick profit will crash and burn.

My question is how Century Arms has survived so long. Maybe they are diversified.

Either they pretty much have a monopoly on imported milsurp semi-auto kits, or they survive because the products' prices attract plenty of buyers who don't know about "alleged" outsourcing quality problems in the past, or they just figure that gambling their hard-earned cash on a gun is worth it.

Maybe the customer warranty Now begins when he/she buys the gun, and not when the gun was manufactured months ago?

A vast segment of the public buys airline tickets based on price, no matter what "code share" company operates the flight, or how many times they must (hope to) connect to reach the final destination.

For example, everyone says that S&W revolvers are not what they used to be and quality isn't the same, yet S&W still commands a premium price and still maintains a strong market share.

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I dont say that. I say their revolvers are the best they've ever made.

Mystery company? LOL, we have been discussing it for several years now.
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=267501&highlight=cerberus

Having firearms manufacturers in the US that stand on solid financial foundations is a good thing.

Whether Cerebrus builds these brands into an efficient, high quality, modern manufacturing operation, or simply guts them for every dollar they can get has yet to be seen.

Believe it or not, most gun makers are small-cap companies at best. I can only think of 1 off hand that has revenues of over 1billion and that is Ruger. They are not "big business" the way anti's suggest. I believe that Smith and Wesson is a $600 Million per year company... Peanuts. There are small regional trucking companies that are larger than that. This is a good thing. Hopefully they made enough out of supplying contractors that they will keep the companies safe for awhile.

"Mystery company?"

I suppose the article's author missed the story on Cerberus buying Chrysler in 2007.

Sheesh.