Two legged dangers in National Parks

Ghost Tracker, at that particular time in my life, I would have had a 22 revolver with me. I think you did good. I don't care what other people think. You could have killed him on the spot. You didn't.

I know about Eastern KY. Pot patches, some stills still around, and now meth labs. The smart meth cooker does it out in the woods. I do wish they would get rid of their trash. Anyone out in the woods needs to pay attention (situational awareness) and I carry every time I am out in the woods. You don't do goofy stuff like Bear Grylis. You're careful as there is nobody around to help you. There are more dangers than 2-legged ones. Some slither on the ground and others have 4-legs. However, the 4-legged variety are generally the least of your worries.

My only encounters have been in Eastern KY. I have had guns pointed at me, scared at times, and learned the kind of places you don't go. But overall, I love that country!

As far as National Parks go, I will be armed if I'm more than a 1/2 mile off the main highway. National Forests... always armed. Trips to the grocery store, seldom armed.

*Startled into posting*

You see Bear Grylls over there??!?!?!?

An unfortunate but timely article on the potential dangers around National Parks

Here's a timely and tragic article at CNN about a shooting near Mt. Rainier in Washington State. After the shooting the gunman disappeared into the National Park.

Authorities scoured the national park around Washington's Mount Rainier on Sunday for a man they say fatally shot a park ranger and fled into the woods, a park spokeswoman said.

The suspect remained at large Sunday afternoon, believed to be somewhere in the expansive park, Mount Rainier National Park spokeswoman Lee Taylor said.

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Here's the link to the full article at CNN:

http://www.cnn.com/2012/01/01/justice/washington-ranger-killed/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

It can be dangerious for the Rangers there.

On Sunday morning a 34 year-old Law Enforcement Ranger was shot and killed there by an unknown assailant. The person remains at large. As officers tried to recover the shot Ranger they were fired upon.

A search for "Mt Rainier Ranger Killed" will yield many results.

Sorry for not posting any links. Just trying to keep HTR out of any copyright issues.

My condolences to her family and two small children.

Sorry no offense intended.

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And none taken.

Someone else posted the same thing while I was posting; about the WA park ranger.

KOMO news article says that there are about a hundred people in cabins and lodges who've been asked to stay put so they don't find themselves in the line of fire, as well as hikers who might not even know about the situation. I pray that everyone is safe and the shooter is found.

When I was a kid our family camped almost every weekend, often in state parks mostly in mn but every 2 years we had a big vacation so i've camped everywhere but the west coast and the east coast. I'm 34 now so this was from 1980-1992 or so. We only had a couple incidences and a firearm wouldn't have been needed, mostly drunks or kids getting drunk. If you don't think you need a firearm in your day to day life you don't need one in the parks or forests. Realize that the same threat your worried about exists in your day to day life also.

I don't want to get too far off track talking about the Park Ranger that was shot and killed today. But it seems the shooter got into a fight at a party in South Seattle and was asked to leave. He returned to the party and shot four people some time later. His car at the scene at Mount Rainier was loaded with weapons, body armor, survival equipment, and camping supplies according to the news. It would appear he intended to head into the woods to hide out after shooting the four people in Skyway. I think that would be one bad camp to stumble upon in the forest!

I travel the back woods often as an outdoors and off road enthusiast. I'm self employed and mostly go four wheeling mid-week so my friends and I can have the trails almost entirely to ourselves. (There can be heavy traffic on weekends.) Often times we'll go to a popular ORV area that would have a hundred people on a weekend and be the only people there, all day. Our tire tracks going in being the freshest ones when we're going out. My dad taught me early on to always be armed and aware in the woods. When I was a kid we ran across some really sketchy people while hiking but never had an altercation. Perhaps because my dad open carried his P38 most of the time. Some of the time he carried it concealed and I now know those times we were in places where guns were not allowed. I concealed carry my XD45C at all times anyway but also take my Saiga .308 with me anytime I'm headed to the woods. My friends know that should there be any sort of 'problem' while we're out wheeling priority number one is for me to get to my rifle.

I've run across quite a few old travel trailers way out in the woods, I mean in places that a wheeler like me thinks "How in the world did someone even drag that thing over all the stumps and boulders to get it here?" They use them as meth labs I'm told by the rangers. I've only come upon one such trailer that had a vehicle parked near it and I immediately turned around and left the area. I went directly to a known point with cell service and called the ranger station to let them know about it.

Since I do work in a national park, I've continued to follow this thread (and I was up last night watching the accounts of that sad killing of a ranger). Since I'm also a retired cop I'll post once more on this. I don't think that the frequency of trouble in rural areas, particularly national parks is any higher (or lower) than the urban or suburban jungles most of us are familiar with.... The real problem that I see is that you're not going to get any assistance (at least not soon enough) if you do have a problem.... and that makes all the difference to me. I choose not to go armed on the water (but always have a weapon available towing my skiff down the road or at any boat ramp). A bit of caution and being aware of your surroundings is what I'd preach. I think that's far more important than whether you're armed or not. That same philosophy will stand you in good stead in the big city as well...

Here is another article regarding the gunman at Mount Rainier. I'm posting because it shows a picture of the person of interest holding a Saiga and some other handgun that I don't recognize.

I don't know where they get these pictures but I can see the press trying to spin this for the need of more gun control.

http://portal.wowway.net/news/read.php?rip_id=<[email protected]>&ps=1011&page=1

The other gun looks like a Mac 10 or some clone.

I found it interesting that the found his car abandonded with various firearms, ammo, and body armor. I am curious to know if he ended up taking body armor with him. On the last few years, there have been a few cases where bad guys had body armor, but were not wearing it and ended up abandoning it when they took flight.

Here's a quote from the wowway.net article. I'd like to ask Mr. Wade how repealing the National Parks carry law would have prevented this tragedy. I suspect that he knows very well it would not have but he couldn't resist scoring political points. How unfortunate.

Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts that will happen in today's political climate.

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Yeah the bad guy would still have had a gun, because the bg doesn't obey the law LOL.

Very sad, my condolence to the family.

The Mt Rainier criminal was found dead today.
Good riddance, too bad it didn't happen earlier before he shot the partiers and the Ranger.

I think this Bill Wade must be suffering some aging & reasoning problems. The greater prevalence of armed LAW ABIDING people in the parks is what would have stopped that attack at Mt Rainier, not the disarming of the visitors. A person armed in self defense is ALL that would have stood in the way of any assault. If anything, this disputes the anti-gunners argument. Once again, common sense appears to not be so common.

I don't know about WA fiream laws, but in my state of Tennessee, it would be illegal to have a loaded rifle in Smoky Mt National Park. A handgun carry permit does not give you permission to carry a long gun in a park. So, changing an existing law would have had no effect what so ever in the case of the Mt. Rainier NP. But of course we all know that anyway regardless of whether it is or is not legal to have a loaded long gun in Mt. Rainier NP.

The guy didn't last long... they found him apparently dead from exposure with only one shoe on and only a tea shirt. No coat. I believe they did find two firearms but they have not stated what they were at this point.

I pray for the families affected and am thankful that more were not hurt. This had the potential of fueling the antis 2012 campaign if shootings continued.

Like others stated, this is more reason we should carry in parks and forests. We should have the ability to defend ourselves especially in a place where help can be hours away.

The guy didn't last long... they found him apparently dead from exposure with only one shoe on and only a tea shirt. No coat. I believe they did find two firearms but they have not stated what they were at this point.

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Sounds like the gunman died of hypothermia. In an odd twist, victims of hypothermia can feel overheated, leading them to shed clothing in an attempt to "cool down".

From Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia)

Twenty to fifty percent of hypothermia deaths are associated with paradoxical undressing. This typically occurs during moderate to severe hypothermia, as the person becomes disoriented, confused, and combative. They may begin discarding their clothing, which, in turn, increases the rate of heat loss.

One explanation for the effect is a cold-induced malfunction of the hypothalamus, the part of the brain that regulates body temperature. Another explanation is that the muscles contracting peripheral blood vessels become exhausted (known as a loss of vasomotor tone) and relax, leading to a sudden surge of blood (and heat) to the extremities, fooling the person into feeling overheated.

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At this point I don't really care what guns were used. They were tools in the hands of the wrong person.

At this point I don't really care what guns were used. They were tools in the hands of the wrong person.

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Well said, I agree.

Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision to allow loaded weapons in national parks. He called Sunday's fatal shooting a tragedy that could have been prevented. He hopes Congress will reconsider the law that took effect in early 2010, but doubts that will happen in today's political climate.

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I'm guessing the park also has a speed limit, which the suspect didn't care about because he sped past a checkpoint which made the Ranger take chase. It's also illegal to shoot people outside of self defense but that didn't stop the suspect either. A piece of paper or signs never stopped any bullets or cars.

Hey, at least Mr. Wade is on his way out.

http://www.thenewstribune.com/2012/01/01/1966247/guns-have-been-legal-at-rainier.html
Here's a counterpoint to this Wade knucklehead. This volunteer ranger isn't a believer in park carry but even he admits that a gun ban wouldn't have stopped this killer.

Somebody mentioned the Saiga in the hands of the Mt. Rainier psycho, and how the press will try to manipulate the images. I also noticed the Kalashnikov.

Even reporters on Fox News use the phrase "assault weapon", even though the network seems more balanced with gun issues than any other networks.

Is there any reasonable chance that Fox News would ever change the term to "sport utility gun", or would they have less chance of holding the viewers' attention, in the age of very short attention spans?
Sure it's a naive question, but one can always hope.

As a former park ranger, I can tell you I worry much much more anyday about 2 legged predators rather than 4 legged.

And there are no 4 legged predators in the lower 48 I worry about, having confronted all but a wolverine, except for the grizzley. And that includes rattlers & gators...which some people are unnecessarily afraid of IMO.

In isolated areas, people can feel that they are beyond observation or the reach of the law. Some are out there specifically to escape...as was the shooter in Mt Ranier Nat Park (most likely)....the road he was on leads out of the park thru less patrolled areas....