Question about black powder and substitutes

I have 5 muzzle loaders and have shot them for 20+ years and have never used hot water on them. Jest a good cleaning with what I have and never no rust. I always wipe the out side down with RIG.

I like to use black powder solvents for cleaning Pyrodex and its stuborn deposits while other folks obtain good results using soap & water.
Either way, sometimes using plenty of elbow grease is required to remove it.
Having a choice of cleaning agents that are effective on the various powders is probably better than only having one.
There's even a solvent that's made for removing 777.
Using some implements and accessories can also be helpful to help scour and scub the deposits until they're gone.
And there's also some household cleaners that can help like Formula 409 or GoJo waterless hand cleaner (without the pumice). Everyone seems to have their favorites.
But the longer that a stubborn deposit remains behind can make it all that much tougher to remove. That's also when using an effective solvent and plenty of elbow grease can be very helpful.

Ah, bore butter has never worked for me as rust preventative. RIG is all I've ever used. I also have never used any black powder substitutes. I only shoot flint locks and have been for over 40 years. I clean with hot water and only time I have had probems with caked powder is in the breech area. A scraper works for that. Black powder causes a salt based residue when fired and water is the best way to get rid of it. Good shooting and keep your powder dry.

Yep I don't use a substitute, and clean with plain water, plus a scrub with tow, followed by drying, and application of oil like Balistol. If I am putting them up for a while before going to the range or hunting, I apply Dexron transmission fluid. When it comes time to use them, I wipe the bore clean of the Dexron, and go from there.

A couple of decades ago the NMLRA's Muzzle Blasts magazine did a study of hot water and soap vs. cold water. They didn't find any advantage in cleaning or rust prevention with either, but did notice that a thin layer of rust often formed when using the hot water method, but was easily taken care of moments later with application of oil.

Dexron was originally formulated with Sperm Whale oil..., then whaling became a no-no, so they have had several formulas that are synthetic, but duplicate the corrosion prevention of SWO.

LD

I'm going to speculate here, but it's possible that the residue you (fishblade 2) found isn't due to your powder or cleaning method at all, but rather to incomplete cleaning before shooting.

You may not already be aware that using petroleum based oil in the bore of a black powder gun is not recommended; the reason is that black powder, and the majority of the black powder substitutes, do not burn hot enough to completely burn the lower distillate petroleum based oils used in rust prevention. The result is a tar-like substance that's difficult to remove.

I've not experienced any difficulty in removing the combustion by-products from either real black powder or black powder substitutes (Pyrodex, 777) using plain hot, warm or cold water. I've also had reasonably good results with bp solvents (but plain water is cheaper...). That's why I think you may have had some oils left behind that were present when the gun was shot - that seems to me to be the most likely source of the residue you described.

You have two choices, really. There are several mineral oil based black powder lubricants and rust preventatives available: Thompson Center's No. 13, Butch's Bore Shine, Hoppe's No. 9 PLUS for black powder, Ballistol, Barricade and several others. I used Bore Butter for many years, then Ballistol and now Barricade.

The other choice you have is to continue to use a regular gun oil, but be sure to thoroughly clean it out before shooting. Alcohol is effective in this regard.

I've never used Dexron so I can't comment on it's effectiveness.

X marks the spot.

I shoot pyrodex pellets and didn't want to emulate Pa Ingalls on Little House on the Prairie. Many an episode he cleaned his long gun with boiling hot water. Windex seems to cut through burnt Pyrodex slag better than anything I've come across...and store brand window cleaner Brand-X works just as well as the name brand product as the chemistry is on par. And my 1858 Remmy works flawlessly...I soak the nipples in a shot glass of windex overnight then run my nipple pick through....50 cylinders and 300 big bangs later I have yet to have a mis-fire or hang fire. Thumbs up