Hiding Firearms

Don't kid yourself. There are plenty of lawmakers out there who would like nothing better than to do away with the second amendment.

So what does he do? He, before a restraining order gets filed, takes all the guns out of his house and hides them. Now lets say not long after that his angry wife files one of those false restraining orders and gets it and tell the police her husband has a gun collection. So the police come and say "turn in your guns". He says "What guns? By all means, please come in and search for yourself".

What can they do to him?

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In the State I am familiar with, they can't do anything. If he is found to be in possession of the guns, they can charge him, but that's only if they find them and can prove that he was "in possession" of them.

There is a large number of prohibited people in this country who still go deer hunting, to the range, kill rival drug dealers etc. and continue to possess guns.

Strykervet -- I want to be your neighbor!

Never hide anything from the authorities on your own property.

The government has unlimited time and resources such as metal detectors, explosive sensing technology and infrared devices that can detect firearms and ammunition built into walls and buried in the ground. The best place to hide something is "off warrant". That is somewhere a search warrant issued for you would not apply. This means nowhere on your property, home or business and not on an any rental property with your name or your spouse’s name on it. Firearms need to be kept in a climate controlled environment or they will "sweat" and rust if the temperature changes to rapidly. They can be buried if proper precautions are taken to eliminate moisture but they should be buried somewhere remote or on public property where it can't be linked to you. A better idea is in the home of a friend or relative that you trust. You can also stash them in some public building like your church provided you have a key and a place to secretly hide and retrieve it without it being detected.

Wow, this should be a sticky. It could be filed right between ‘retro-fitting your AR to fire full auto’ and the ‘marijuana cultivation guide’.

I'm currently in posession of a friends shotgun, because he has a restraining order against him. She's wreaking havok on him for no reason except for revenge. He's fighting the RO, but thought it was a good idea for me to hold on to his gun while he's sorting it all out. Nothing illegal, same as borrowing it.

The Fifth Amendment protects against confiscation. Under gun laws existing lawfully owned firearms have always been grandfathered.

Just so you know, I am a criminal defense attorney here in the States, but I know nothing about the law in Canada, so I can't answer anything about that situation.

But here in the U.S., no court would be able to convict you of possession of a banned item without proving to a jury beyond a reasonable doubt that you were in fact in possession of the item at a time after the ban took effect. Even if they could prove that you owned the item at some point in time before the ban, they could not as a practical matter convict you for violating the ban without actually catching you with the guns in your possession, recording you with the guns in your possession, or with very strong eyewitness testimony. In that case, burying or hiding the guns could very well be an effective strategy. If you do this, Owen Sparks' advice about hiding them "off warrant" is very wise.

Remember, the government has the burden of proof -- they have to prove that you DO have the banned gun. You don't have to prove that you DON'T have it. You could tell them a story about how it was lost or stolen, but you don't have to tell them any story at all -- you can just remain silent and let them try to prove that you DID have the gun.

The ease with which a person can avoid getting caught in this way is why governments usually require registration before they engage in a wholesale ban. There are usually requirements that go along with gun registration that make it more difficult to get away with violating the law. For instance, in cities that require gun registration such as D.C. and Chicago, everyone who has a registered gun is required to report when it is sold, lost, or stolen within a certain number of days.

So in one of these jurisdictions, if you told the police that the gun was lost or stolen when they come for it, they may be able to hit you with a violation of the reporting requirement, even if they can't get you for possession of the gun.

Which is why if you wish to avoid gun confiscation, your best bet is to never register your guns in the first place. Then, you are back to the situation where the only thing they can bust you for is actual possession.

You also asked about the possibility of being held indefinitely until you tell the police the whereabouts of your illegal guns. This could not happen in the U.S. because of the 5th Amendment, which says that you can't be forced to incriminate yourself. So if you were asked on a witness stand where your guns are, you could plead the 5th and remain silent. Reporters who are asked on the witness stand to reveal their sources cannot plead the 5th, because they are not being asked to incriminate themselves -- they are being asked to incriminate someone else; so they can be jailed for contempt of court until they comply. See the difference?

Personally, I am of the opinion that "if it's time to bury 'em, it's time to dig 'em up." I do not intend to ever bury one of my guns, I do not ever intend to register one of my guns, and I do not ever intend to turn any of them in for confiscation. Anyone who tries to enforce one of these laws on me will be resisted with deadly force. That is just one of those places where I draw the line.

Let's hope this discussion remains hypothetical... and let's do everything in our power to make sure it never gets to the point where we have to make such hard choices. This would include not only political activism, but also being vocal about the fact that we will not abide by or tolerate these kind of laws. When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty.

What can I say here fellows other than: "from my cold dead hand."

henschman... I shouldn't have to remind you that... juries... and judges... are unpredictable... and that... even WHEN we finally win... the legal COSTS can destroy MOST families. PLEASE don't forget that most of us are financially poor....

henschman... I shouldn't have to remind you that... juries... and judges... are unpredictable... and that... even WHEN we finally win... the legal COSTS can destroy MOST families. PLEASE don't forget that most of us are financially poor....

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That's true in a civil trial, but if you are charged with a crime and cannot afford a private defense attorney, the state in which you are being charged is legally obligated to provide one for you (Public Defender). Thank you Sixth Amendment.

^^^ And I should trust the state to defend me?

Without registration, there is no way for the police to know who has what. That's why it's so important to oppose registration schemes.

With the NFA, there were few full autos around and the system was put in place before WWII and the feds have been able to keep a tight lid on them. But with non-NFA weapons the situation is very different, and enforcement is purely ad hoc in those states with additional bans in place or mini-AWB's on the books.

So the door-to-door confiscation fear is myth. It's a gradual process, and will come up anytime you have law enforcement or other officials involved in your life or on your property. Of course you can bury your firearms. And without a registration list there's really no way they'll ever know or care. But they'll be useless to you.

A *FAR* more realistic threat, present in all 50 states, is confiscation due to some jerk roommate's drug use, loss from fire or flood, loss in a divorce or loss to creditors. For these purposes it's not a bad idea to keep a spare piece in a safe in the office or some other location away from your home. And get a pre-nup, because a wronged ex makes the BATFE look like pussycats.

^^^ It's more a matter of "fear of getting caught", I surmise.

Well, if things get that bad, I suspect all our rights will be gone, and the Consittution will have been declared void by Executive Order. Then the police or military won't even ask about your guns, they will just storm in and take them. If you try to pull "I lost them" or something like that, they will shoot you and your family down like dogs. They will also kill or put in concentration camps anyone who criticizes the Supreme Leader (or whatever he calls himself) and anyone who is believed to be disloyal to Him.

Jim

The only reason I would see to bury guns would be to cache some in different places along with some ammo, knife, money and such in case the need came up and those at home were compromised somehow. Sort of a subterranean BOB.

Since this is The High Road I'll say this - The Constitution guarantees the Right to Keep and Bear Arms. Any other illegal yet tolerable act of government is up to the people if they wish to tolerate it. -Me

Any comprehensive gun ban would require a Constitutional amendment. I can think of two times in the past in which amendments caused the loss of property, the 13th and 21st amendments. Where slave holders and booze owners compensated for the loss of property?

I don't think so.

The official position of THR is that we don't advocate illegalities.

Since there is no such thing as true anonymity on the Internet, it is extremely foolish to ever suggest doing anything which is in contravention of law.