Kel-tec RFB in .223 / 5.56?

I think they would be competing with themselves and the SU-16.

Besides that, they seem to have a hard time making enough of what they already make.
Adding another model to the mix would not help production keep up any.

rc

There's not a lot of demand for one, Microtech went bankrupt trying to make their MSARs, and real AUGs are not popular.

I doubt you'll ever see that one, as said above they already have the SU16.

How about some RFBs on store shelves period.

I never look for them because there is already one in my vault.

There's not a lot of demand for one, Microtech went bankrupt trying to make their MSARs, and real AUGs are not popular.

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There may not be a lot of demand at the over $2k price point of the aug or the $1700+ price that the STG 556 went for. A kel tec for around 700-800 might do better.

Considering they cannot even really produce the 308 in any meaningful numbers I wont hold my breath for a 5.56 RFB. I think one is more likely to get the Tavor. Also for $1500 one can get a FS2000. All of the FN guns I have owned or shot were vastly better built guns than the kel tecs I've owned or shot. Unless the kel tec was about half the price I wouldn't even consider it over an FN offering.

I'm just not a huge fan for anything built by Kel-Tec not saying they are bad guns I just dont like them

Last I heard it was called the CFB and they where working on it.

Based on the serial numbers people are posting over on the KTOG web site it APPEARS that the current production numbers for the RFB is of the order of 150-200 per month with a visible ramp up.

They are selling all the RFB's they make so unless or until they get those numbers WAAAAY higher I wouldn't hold my breath on a 5.56.

Having said that I would love to have one to go with its big brother.

With regard to the folks who don't like Kel-Tecs....this weapon is NOT what people may think of as a "typical" KT firearm, it is a well built, innovative and so fugly it's a sexy, piece of kit....

I mean, come on, what's not to love in a .308/7.62, 18.5 inch barrel, 26.5 inch overall length rifle...it oozes EBR.....

Oh and I love mine......

With regard to the folks who don't like Kel-Tecs....this weapon is NOT what people may think of as a "typical" KT firearm, it is a well built, innovative and so fugly it's a sexy, piece of kit

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Have the gas blocks stopped exploding?

There are no reports of "gas blocks exploding", although one user reported unscrewing the gas adjuster to far so far it popped off when he shot the rifle

Next time you want to post an unfounded question why not reference it to a report?

ACTUAL issues that have been reported included

A short run of bolts where a third party chrome plating was patchy. KT have moved to a Titanium Nitride plating and that issue has gone away. KT replaced those with a problem at no cost.

A few users, in the early days reported that some of welding on the bolt carrier fractured under heavy usage. KT replaced the defective parts at no cost to the owner

One report of the buffer plate on the return springs being misaligned, sent to KT, fixed at no cost to the owner

One user had a dinged eject chute and a spot weld fracture again KT worked with the owner.

A number of failure to feed issues that turned out to be magazine related

All these issues were with the Gen 1 gas system and the current Gen 2 appears to have the QC issues under control.

Wait.

So now I am supposed to put a chamber / bolt underneath my EYEBALL, made from a company like Kel-Tec?

not no but HECK NO.

Life is to short for poorly made guns.

Poorly made guns that put the "boom chamber" underneath your face....

nope.

To the OP: How about KT make enough RFB's period?

dom: I've never heard of a KT product KaBooming, but to each his own.

As others have said, they really have to meet demand already with the orders they have. On one hand I think it's a wise business move to not grow too big that you have to lay people off when the demand dies down, and it may also provide some sort of elusive allure too. On the other hand, people may hear of the lack of supply and find the next best product to fulfill their needs/wants.

I love the thought of a bullpup in .308, but considering that the law enforcement market is geared around .223, I think they should've started there and cover the civilian market as well while going after local government acquitions. Having LEOs field and test equipment sometimes garners civilian attention as well. I'm not saying that it's always the most accurate form of product evaluation, but it does create interest.

Life is to short for poorly made guns.

Poorly made guns that put the "boom chamber" underneath your face....

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There's a big difference between lacking aesthetic refinement and poorly made.

If you don't like KT's, that's your business, but it's hardly fair or high road to call them junk. The reality is that they're well made firearms, and the low price point is reflected in the finish. They use high quality alloys/polymers and state of the art manufacturing. They just don't put the man hours into making them pretty, which is why they're $300 instead of $500.

Every manufacturer puts out a few lemons. It's just much easier to attack the less expensive ones saying "you get what you pay for" yadda, yadda. I've had 6 KT's, still have 5 of them. I only sold the PLR because i had two and needed cash. Mine have all been excellent, and I trust my life with the P3 or PF9 daily.

There are no reports of "gas blocks exploding", although one user reported unscrewing the gas adjuster to far so far it popped off when he shot the rifle

Next time you want to post an unfounded question why not reference it to a report?

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You are right I totally made it up.




This gun had to have the gas block (#156), gas head (#160), and piston (#162). replaced. It was a gas head failure according to a kel tec employee. (perhaps I should have said are the gas heads still exploding).

The theory at the time was that it was the result of an annealing and heat treatment problem. The same thing that happened with the casings tubes on some guns (was that one of the known problems you mentioned?).

http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=241792&page=3

Post 27 on this thread also claims to have a gas block blown apart.

http://www.thektog.org/forum/showthread.php?t=241783

http://www.thehighroad.org/archive/index.php/t-542283.html

further discussion about gas block issues in the above links.



Also if one believes that kel tec will make good on any issues they may want to contact forum member wally about his experience with Kel tec and his RFB. Apparently his gun has been back to kel tec (possibly twice I'd have to check) and still wont run even close to reliably and kel tec has stopped responding to him.


I'm aware of one or two RFB kabooms as well.

The fact is the RFB has been slow to come to market, had a rather low production rate since it has been on the market and has had what I would consider a relatively high number of issues given the relatively low volume of guns kel tec has produced.


I also see you didn't mention known issues of gas pistons deforming with relatively low round counts. Did you mention top rails being out of alignment with the bore?

If they do offer it in 223...I hope they bring the weight down because the 308 version isn't light and I wouldn't want that sort of weight on a 223 rifle.

Quote:
There are no reports of "gas blocks exploding", although one user reported unscrewing the gas adjuster to far so far it popped off when he shot the rifle

Next time you want to post an unfounded question why not reference it to a report?

You are right I totally made it up.

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Yep you should be more careful about spreading terrible lies like that!

I had one of those imaginary events with mine too. I will say since they reapired it I have had no other issues in over 1K rounds.

Reportedly, in the early 90's, they were working on something similar called the SUB16 (not to be confused with SU-16) that eventually led to the RFB.



But it's not like it matters. With their production issues, they could release it tomorrow and it might still be years before you could get one.

Girodin said:

There may not be a lot of demand at the over $2k price point of the aug or the $1700+ price that the STG 556 went for. A kel tec for around 700-800 might do better.

Considering they cannot even really produce the 308 in any meaningful numbers I wont hold my breath for a 5.56 RFB. I think one is more likely to get the Tavor. Also for $1500 one can get a FS2000. All of the FN guns I have owned or shot were vastly better built guns than the kel tecs I've owned or shot. Unless the kel tec was about half the price I wouldn't even consider it over an FN offering.

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I don't think an $800 keltec RFB is ever going to happen, 5.56 or 7.62. I believe the bolt and carrier (among other things) require machining that pushes the pricetag up too far for that

So.

Just to be accurate.........

There is ONE, possibly two apparently recorded issue, with ONE, possibly two firearms where there is a failure in a gas block in a Gen 1 firearm and somehow this translates to, and I quote, "gas blockS" exploding..?

No "kaboom", no injury to the user, a graceful failure in...AGAIN I re-iterate a Gen 1 RFB and somehow this translate to OMG, *** GAS BLOCKS EXPLODE.

Lets see, how many AR-15's in the last 18 month have had problems...? More than 1 or 2, hell, tell me how many of the AR platform have gone nasty since it became a consumable....1, 2, 100, 1000...?

Tell, me Girodin, exactly how many RFB's do you own and use..?

Let's see... some reports of issues with the first year or two of the Keltec RFB....

Let's go back and look at the first year or two following the introduction of the AR15 in Vietnam. Or the worse by a long shot introduction of the SA80 to the British Army. Both had pleanty of teething troubles despite being introduced by a rather "big" name.

From all I've read Keltec is making right by their wares despite providing product that is at a very competitive price point.

These days it's not so much that mistakes are made but the nature in which those mistakes are addressed. Change is upon us to rapidly from too many directions to assure perfection in every case of a new product. Instead it is the nature of the reaction to issues that turn up that makes or breaks the reputation of the company.

So.

Just to be accurate.........

There is ONE, possibly two apparently recorded issue, with ONE, possibly two firearms where there is a failure in a gas block in a Gen 1 firearm and somehow this translates to, and I quote, "gas blockS" exploding..?

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First of all, there clearly has been more than one. There are two different pictures in this thread alone.

I don't know how many incidents there have been of it. I was able to use google and find multiple incidents in about 30 seconds.

The point is that your statement it has never happened is demonstrably wrong and your list of known issues is incomplete. It is also a pretty long list. Many new firearms have a problem that creeps up that is one thing (M16s not getting chrome lining places that should have been, i.e. the chamber) a laundry list of them is another. Again this is amplified by the relatively low number of guns produced with relation to problems seen. I also fail to see how pointing out that other guns in the past have not worked right justifies the kel tec not working right. This is the point of beta testing. Some companies apparently let their customers do it. I don't care if it is a huge company or a small one, I just don't want to buy guns that aren't fairly well proven.

If two exploded cause by bad parts (and that was the initial theory of those posting over on the KTOG forum, including a KT employee) it is a fair question to ask if that is a problem that has been resolved. If the answer is yes then the answer is yes. To deny it ever happened is just silly.

From all I've read Keltec is making right by their wares despite providing product that is at a very competitive price point.

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Arguably it is cheaper to just fix the guns that get sent back then up quality control across the whole line. There is a certain number of users who will never send them back in. It is what helps them meet their price point.

Tell, me Girodin, exactly how many RFB's do you own and use..?

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I've used on that a friend owns. I do not own one. Though I'm not exactly sure how that is relevant to all their known and reported issues though. I do own a number of other kel tec firearms.

Lets see, how many AR-15's in the last 18 month have had problems...?

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This of course ignores the difference between absolute numbers and percentages. That aside I think it is a very good example of what happens when some companies cut corners to build guns. How many of those guns do you think were noveskes and how many were _________? (I left a blank so I don't cause another brand zealot to get riled up, but we know which companies are the likely suspects.)