ar15 idea

This is bit like what happens with Thompson-Contenders. So you find a sweet T/C, and don't mind the 11/32lepidopera bore 14" barrel, 'cause, hey, you already have an eye on a 10" in .44mag.
Which is ok, those t/c "top ends" are pretty reasonable in price. But, you wind up spending 2x or 3x that upper cost in the scope. Or, the .25mag upper you really want already has a lower on it--which is good, as it's an over-moulded grip so you don't need two shooting gloves to fire the thing . . .

AR uppers are like that, too. Uppers wind up matched to lowers. Not for a lack of imagination on the owner's part, but as a matter of practicality. Even the "modular" ones are better with only one module selected. It's really nice to not need magazine adapters in your lower. And a dedicated lower makes that possible.

In theory, it sounds like an ok idea, in practice, nobody does it. One previous poster on a forum suggested it while making his way to the American border - much of the same was mentioned. Too much weight.

Just humping the extra 50 pounds of gear means NOT carrying what you do need - shelter, water, etc. In the service, the Command has already worked out what you will carry, and there's about as much desire to add more as there is to wear waist and ankle weights in a marathon. None.

In the field, hunters who spot game out of range simply plan a stalk to get closer. It's the ONLY option, assuming they could see game that far out without optics to begin with. Using a scope or binoculars, they already know they have to work a stalk to get in range. So the caliber and barrel length are already chosen to maximize the best ballistics working the normal hunting distances - not long range precision shooting guessing at wind drift. Hunting is a more ethical sport than combat, we prefer to take the time to get one good shot that disables and kills the game humanely, not wildly blasting away hoping for a hit.

On the other hand, darn few of us walk miles out of the prairie to suddenly have a CQB assault on our hands getting into the house. How did we know that was needed, and why would we want to? Some special, imaginary, decimal percentage of reality zombie apocalypse? Really?

In the military, you could just send a appropriate unit equipped with those special tools and training to do the job. Or, just deal with it.

Going into that scene, you want all 300 rounds of ammo to use, all the same as the upper. Not 200 that are dead weight and incapable of even being body armor.

Who guards the leftover uppers you piled up at the front door? Cause if you have hostiles around, somebody is going to steal them. Now you're a man short getting the job done, and have 25% of the ammo you really need for a day's patrol with combat scheduled.

Goes to: Nobody is doing it, because there's no effective advantage, and a lot of horrible disadvantages. If long range precision is needed, so is a lot of practice, and most don't. If CQB is needed, so is a lot of practice with team mates to coordinate overlapping fire with your buddy downrange, too - or you. Very few do that. Those that do are very aware at least one DOD combatant is killed annually in shoothouse training every year.

The only place this works is at a gun range where you are allowed to monkey with the action on the firing line, and you can haul all the gear in a vehicle. Cause, nobody is going to walk there with it on their back. And as far as finding a range that has a 500m firing line, much less 1000m, AND a shoothouse where you and your buddy can practice room clearing, not happening.

Let's be honest, it's a gamer fantasy. This is the downside of all the virtual combat - people cook up stuff that simply does not work anywhere except on a video screen, and don't know better.

So you really think its plausible that after a prarie dog hunt while walking home you will have the need to snipe somebody at long range, shoot a moose, engage a vehicle and then clear your house upon arrival? Am i missing something?

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You just never know what you'll run into!

Who's toting all this around? Is this some combat load-out for a soldier? A rancher knocking around his back 40,000? A lone-wolf survivor of an apocalyptic event? I'm having a hard time envisioning the scenario in which, weight aside, this would even be needed/desired.

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Amen.

This is a fun idea for "grown-up Legos" but is of no practical use. You aren't going to need to disable a vehicle while close-quarters Moose hunting in your home.

Our infantrymen are already carrying something near (and sometimes quite a bit more than) 100 lbs. of gear. A soldier carries NOTHING that isn't needed for the specific mission s/he's on ... and would probably leave even the necessities back at base if his CO would allow it!

No hunter wants or needs all this stuff. Hunters don't shoot "targets of opportunity" unless they're varmint hunting and then the same small caliber will work for all.

What set-ups like this do well, is provide meat for the sort of juvenile gear-head fantasizing that action movies make their money off of.

The most ironic part is that the premise is to create the MOST flexible kit, ready to take on absolutely anything, truly universal -- but it requires the most contorted, constrained, specific, and unrealistically limited scenario and user in order to seem practical.

Just bringing 4 guns to the range on a range trip has gotten to be too much for me. My m4gery and my NM 20 really do better on 2 separate lower configurations anyway. Guess which on goes with the collapsible stock and which one gets the fixed stock/match trigger lower.

I can certainly appreciate precisionrifle14's enthusiasm for the easy and vast amount of flexibility built into the AR platform, after all, I think it's one of the more obvious advantages that make the AR platform so incredibly versatile.

However, as others have pointed out, there's a big difference between what is possible and practical in one situation, and possible and practical in other situations.

Having spent some amount of time hunting in the mountains of Colorado, I can tell you that carrying a single rifle with a day pack can become tiring after a few hours. I certainly wouldn't want to have to lug any excess weight around that I don't absolutely have to have.

On the flip side of things, I've also attended many 3 Gun matches, some that had stages held off the beaten path, and required competitors to carry their gear (rifle, pistol, shotgun, all ammunition carrying devices, ammunition, hearing protection, range kit, etc.*) several hundred yards to get to the course of fire.

Speaking from experience, walking even that short distance with that much gear isn't much fun. Even using one of the very roomy backpacks purpose-built by Eberlestock to carry all of that gear as well as two long guns doesn't make the task that much easier.

I know this seems like a good idea, but I would strongly suggest that you actually figure out what that gear weighs, load up a backpack with the same weight equivalent, and go for a hike. I guarantee you it won't seem like such a great idea after a mile or so in the field.


That said, yes, I own more uppers than I have lowers, I just choose which ones I'm going to take with me to the range, and go from there. It's a lot easier to tote multiple guns and all the gear to go with them when you're only moving the gear the ten feet from the back of a car to the firing line.





*And God help you if you forgot your score sheet back at the car.

An upper weighs about 5 pounds (or more, depending on the barrel). Do you really want to be lugging around 10 pounds (or more) worth of uppers in "a special pack", as well as enough ammo to put each one a practical selection?

precisionrifle14 said:

I dont have an ar, and i have never shot an ar. I was thinking though since you can swap multiple uppers on a single lower reciever, why dont you buy about 4 uppers and 1 lower. You could carry the uppers in a specialized pack, and then switch them as the scenario changed. You could carry around a 16in. carbine length 6.8 spc, and throw on a 24in. 223 upper for long range precision. Then you could switch over to a 50 beowulf or .458 SOCOM for smashing vehicles. Then you could throw on a .300blk for quiet stopping power. This just seems like it would be a common thing, but I can't find evidence of anyone doing it. I mean really, you could handle anything you came across. You wouldnt have to compromise on caliber and lose any ability. Anything you came across you would have the perfect round for. Seems like a great idea. I know you cant change out the uppers in just a couple of seconds, but how long would it take? Even if it would take a minute, having 3-4 uppers in a special compartment in your pack would seem to make sense in WROL or zombie outbreak.
(jk)

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I think part of the reason why you never see it done is because you know your mission in most cases before going out to 'smash vehicles' or do 'precision long range work'. You're going to set your weapon up before you leave camp, home, whatever.

The second thing comes down to the lowest common denominator to do the job. If you have all of these calibers and are expecting such a wide range of engagements, why not take the most functional round for all of them? Of the calibers you mention, there's a lot of mission overlap. Likewise, you can have your buddy carry around the golden caliber if need be in a squad environment.

I can see what you're saying, but apart from isolated incidents, the second point is going to be the most telling. You can do precision range work with a .300blk just as well as a 5.56 and have more left over at the terminal end of its ballistics. Why take the 5.56 again? 300 is a flexible round. Carry some sonic and subsonic variety with the weight you save in uppers.

Truly, these video games are going to be the death of this country.

All reality goes out the windows, people who have never shot anything living assume that caliber differences are greater than all else...

The only benefit of swapping uppers, that I have ever seen is to switch to 22lr and practice with your normal calibers trigger.

Truly, these video games are going to be the death of this country.

All reality goes out the windows, people who have never shot anything living assume that caliber differences are greater than all else...

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Vidoe games may give false impressions but i've never played one that exagerated the differences in caliber. If anything else they do the reverse unless one really thinks the MP5 is just as effective at longer ranges as FAL. Nobody is actually going to go to war with training based on recreational video games so i think the delusions are in reality quite benign.

Maybe if the the upper was a simple barrel and bolt change I could see that being more adequate. A rolled pack of 3 barrels seems lighter then 3 complete uppers. I've carried various weights and the only thing I hated was carrying 3 50 cal MG barrels with tripod.

But even then I think running around for a day for someone who doesn't do it would suck and tire them out. I see the need for 3 things, primary rifle, good pistol, and a good knife.

You wouldnt have to compromise on caliber and lose any ability. Anything you came across you would have the perfect round for. Seems like a great idea.

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You would have to keep track of what magazine is loaded with this, and which is loaded with that.....and this, and that...etc....bad idea.


ETA: I know several current/former soldiers, and they all said that common practice (in the Iraq and Afghanistan theaters) was to leave their issued knife back at base when going out on patrol and only take a 3-5" folder. They try to save all of the ounces they can....not add 20 lbs of extra uppers

I've almost 100% decided on a Daniel Defense m4 with a Tangodown Battle grip, Eotech MPOIII-EXPS2-2 with a G23 magnifier in a flip to the side mount, an accutant accusight, and a Noveske KX3 5.56 flaming pig flash hider.

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You do understand that the Eotech and magnifier would only be on ONE upper right?....unless you plan on buying 4 of each...

Couldn't you identify the different mags with different colors of tape, or you could just store them in compartments seperate from each other, but with their corresponding upper?

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If you are fighting for your life (i.e. combat), muscle memory takes over. There is a reason that soldiers keep their magazines in the same place, so that when they need to perform a mag change, they don't even have to look. In the heat of the moment, if you are having to look at a magazine and think, "hmmm, is .300 blk the red or blue?" you are going to be dead before you even pull one out....

Read the first part of that post again. I'm not doing actually buying these recievers, it is just a theory. I'm not actually doing it, but I might get just 1 or 2 uppers later.

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An ounce of actual practice is worth 20 .lbs of theory. You've heard plenty of reasons for why your idea is unsound, but have continued on despite logical reasons demonstrating why your idea is unlikely to work.

If you decide to actually try this in real life, check back and start a new thread.