KJS
Member
The following struck me as most unusual. One could simply dismiss it as crazy, except it's from a highly-respected company where you can't even get their least expensive gun unless you have $2,500 of spare change. Emphasis added by me:
Hardball for SD?
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Certaindeaf
member
Since it's for test functioning, they probably figure it'll more than likely function with it.
KJS
Member
Since it's for test functioning, they probably figure it'll more than likely function with it.
I'm not doubting hardball ammo will function. It functioned even in 1911s made in 1911.
It just seems SD ammo has come a long way in recent decades, but seems Ed Brown feels the cheapest .45s you can pick up at Walmart make fine defensive ammo.
I'm not doubting hardball ammo will function. It functioned even in 1911s made in 1911.
It just seems SD ammo has come a long way in recent decades, but seems Ed Brown feels the cheapest .45s you can pick up at Walmart make fine defensive ammo.
Certaindeaf
member
I understand. This has been brought up before. Perhaps it's because it's the most likely thing to work in what he sells. Never know. Pehaps it's all semantics but in the final analysis, one must take ownership for their own decisions in life.
He is doing what is in his best interest, as does anybody.
He is doing what is in his best interest, as does anybody.
KJS
Member
^Well, yes, I know Ed Brown (like any company) will say some stupid things due to advice of legal counsel. Ed officially advises to not carry with a round in the chamber -- on a gun specifically designed for cocked & locked carry.
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
I'll throw my 2 pennies in:
Anything under a .45-I carry a hollow point
.45 - I'll carry either 230 grain hardball or a hollow point. It depends on the season, if I have to worry about heavy winter clothing clogging up a hollow point then I carry hardball.
Anything under a .45-I carry a hollow point
.45 - I'll carry either 230 grain hardball or a hollow point. It depends on the season, if I have to worry about heavy winter clothing clogging up a hollow point then I carry hardball.
KJS
Member
^I too was thinking that perhaps expansion didn't so much matter. A .45 already makes quite a big hole to start with. And it would seem .45 FMJ is far less likely to over-penetrate than is a .357 Mag FMJ could.
I can see some logic there. And I can also see how if you want to be as sure as possible a semi-auto will work in an emergency then feeding it hardball is your best bet. If hard ball doesn't feed through a semi-auto, what would?
I can see some logic there. And I can also see how if you want to be as sure as possible a semi-auto will work in an emergency then feeding it hardball is your best bet. If hard ball doesn't feed through a semi-auto, what would?
Certaindeaf
member
Elmer Keith wouldn't shoot a jackrabbit with hardball.
JTQ
Member
Possibly.
Of course, he probably wouldn't have shot them with hollow points either for what it's worth.
I personally believe hollow points are more effective, but FMJ still works.
I look at it this way. Find 10 people at random. How many have a gun on them? Of those in that group that may in fact have a gun on them, how many of those gun toters have a 5 shot .38 Special or a pocket .380? You've chosen a pistol in .45 ACP and decided on ammunition with the "poor performing" FMJ bullet. Are you better off or worse off than most of the people in the group? My guess is you are better off. If it works in your pistol, pick what you like.
Certaindeaf
member
Old Shooter
Member
C'mon ...It sounds like you guys are just splitting hares now.
Certaindeaf
member
^ doh! lol.
I'm fine with 230gr hardball out of a .45. That's a pretty good thump of metal. Like CombatArms said, anything under .45, I keep it loaded with jhp. .45apc gets jhp in the spring/summer and fmj in the fall/winter or if I'm out walking in the woods.
Still, pretty much any quality autoloader should feed jhp just fine. The only exception in my stable is a 9mm Norinco Tokarev that won't feed anything but ball. However, it's a novelty piece and was only designed to shoot fmj anyway.
Still, pretty much any quality autoloader should feed jhp just fine. The only exception in my stable is a 9mm Norinco Tokarev that won't feed anything but ball. However, it's a novelty piece and was only designed to shoot fmj anyway.
T Bran
Member
My .25 auto is full of round ball at all times as is my .32 . I dont think giving up any
penetration to expansion is to my advantage in these little pocket pistols.
Your theories may differ.
penetration to expansion is to my advantage in these little pocket pistols.
Your theories may differ.
Gun Geezer
Member
One hole in and one hole out. That's 2 holes thru the lung, liver, heart, head, or whatever else your target may be. If you hit your target the bad guy is going down fast.
Flame away
Flame away
Well there are people who think that a solid bullet in a service pistol caliber is capable of leaving a wound channel as wide as the bullet, but that's just not true. Tissue is elastic, and it stretches quite a lot before allowing a bullet to pass through, and once the bullet has moved on, the tissue snaps back into place.
FMJ wound channels are best described as ice pick-like wounds. They are much smaller than the bullet itself and they don't bleed all that much.
There are also people who carry FMJ in winter months because they believe they need extra penetration to deal with clothing, which doesn't take into account that clothing doesn't slow bullets down, and doesn't negatively affect penetration in any pistol bullet.
FMJ wound channels are best described as ice pick-like wounds. They are much smaller than the bullet itself and they don't bleed all that much.
There are also people who carry FMJ in winter months because they believe they need extra penetration to deal with clothing, which doesn't take into account that clothing doesn't slow bullets down, and doesn't negatively affect penetration in any pistol bullet.
OK, two questions:
1. Why would you carry the least effective ammo available for your gun?
2. Why would you carry the most penetrative ammo available, that’s most likely to wound or kill someone on the other side of your attacker?
1. Why would you carry the least effective ammo available for your gun?
2. Why would you carry the most penetrative ammo available, that’s most likely to wound or kill someone on the other side of your attacker?
bigfatdave
Member
This.
Also, what is this, a monthly thread? Quarterly?
Too often for a question that doesn't stand up to critical thought for more than a moment.
this nonsense is wrong two ways
1-A clogged HP acts like a semiwadcutter or FMJ round
2-Your possible self-defense will not necessarily be against someone in heavy winter clothing (what, you never go indoors for three months of cold?)
...
Actually, three ways, because defensive ammo is loaded hotter and is more reliable than most FMJ, which is cheap plinking fodder, not defensive ammo with better QA standards
1: That's just, like, your opinion man. Besides, shot placement > all, regardless of ammo type.
2: Given that you are more likely to miss in a firefight anyway, the likelihood that you'll hit an innocent bystander directly is greater than the chance that you'll hit them collaterally through your intended target.
CombatArmsUSAF
Member
You've obviously never shot actual 230 grain Federal "match" loads which are probably among the hottest loaded 45 rounds available. They also go through a tighter QA process than most SD rounds. This is not the stuff you buy at walmart!
For those of you that say a plugged HP acts the same as an FMJ, that's true if it plugs evenly. But if it doesn't, that HP can act all kinds of funny.
M2 Carbine
member
It make no sense carrying FMJ when you can carry a round that's designed to do far more damage.
.223 and 45ACP.
.223 and 45ACP.
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