Best tactical rifle choice
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briansmithwins
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It's a good thing we had the Garand because Army Ordnance completely missed the boat in developing a GPMG.
Army Ordnance's addiction to machined steel and .30-06 killing power also got out guys killed in Viet-Nam when unsuitable M14s were withdrawn and the M16 was rushed into service w/o having the bugs worked out.
If full power battle rifles are of military utility then please name one country that's developed and adopted one since 1970. Give away G3's and FAL's don't count.
BSW
The only reason the M14's were put out of service in the Vietnam War was more and lighter ammo in the 5.56.. 3 shot bursts would have solved the problem, and the Marines didn't want the 5.56, they wanted the M14 back.... later when the problems with the M16 were solved because of the ammo used , it worked out... but, I think the boys in the mountains over in Afghanistan would like to have the M14's for longer distance shooting in the mountains...
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JustinJ
Member
Aresenal AK74 with MI quad rail and side scope rail. If you want an adjustable stock you can have it. If you want a folding stock you can have it. It is number one in categories 1, 3 and 5, which are really the most important. There are rifles with better ergonomics but in a realistic scenario the AKs are plenty adequate. Accuracy more than meets your requirements. Weight is about average and aftermarket parts are fair and continuing to grow.
Another option would be a Steyr AUG A3.
From you list i'd probably go with the SCAR.
FIVETWOSEVEN
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Words of the ignorant. 5.7 x 28 is as powerful as 9mm and will do the job just as good.
C-grunt
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We also won the Revolutionary War with muzzle loaders. That doesn't make it the ideal weapon today as lessons from combat evolve the weapons. The M1 Garand was arguably the best rifle of its time. But that time was a long time ago and combat weapons have progressed since then. I do believe the M1A is a good defensive weapon of you can handle the weight and recoil.
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JustinJ
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MIA, FAL, AR10, G3, SCAR H seem like very poor defensive weapons, IMO. I'd suggest shooting one indoors if you don't agree. Just for fun use a 16" or shorter barrel and do it in the dark. Get back to use when you regain hearing and sight.
mortablunt
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I don't have a problem with a battle rifle for HD.
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GREAT point about any weapon. To this I would also add think of your family situation, where applicable. I love my AK/Ultimak/EOTech setup but it's WAY too front-heavy for my wife. Keeping a spare AR around is the way to go for us in case some peckerwood breaks in, gets a lucky shot off, and the Mrs has to fight after I'm dead.
precisionrifle14
Member
Guys can we just cut of the whole full power battle rifle argument? come on now...
I'm still looking for anyone to answer the key points about an LWRC M6A2 piston rifle with 16" barrel. Any real life stories which can attest to thee weapons reliability would be great. Not something you 'think' a rifle can do, but something you have personally seen or done.
P.S. Thanks for the advice so far, I'll avoid the pistol calibers and stick to the real guns.
I'm still looking for anyone to answer the key points about an LWRC M6A2 piston rifle with 16" barrel. Any real life stories which can attest to thee weapons reliability would be great. Not something you 'think' a rifle can do, but something you have personally seen or done.
P.S. Thanks for the advice so far, I'll avoid the pistol calibers and stick to the real guns.
JustinJ
Member
Don't be so quick to dismiss pistol caliber. Firing any gun(minus silencer) inside a home can be disorienting, deafening, blinding and even set off a smoke alarm but this is much less so with pistol calibers. I have a HK USC to UMP conversion that i have no doubt would make an extremely effective home defense weapon with far less muzzle blast than a 5.56. A good hollowpoint .45, ecspecially +P, with the accuracy of a rifle will provide one with an excellent home defense weapon.
LWRC experiences are probably limited due to the gun's cost.
LWRC experiences are probably limited due to the gun's cost.
Squeaky Wheel
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It might be best to define the parameters of what "battle" means for you. In one situation, an AK might be best; perhaps an AR in some other scenario; M1A might be best for something else. This may sound evasive, but really "it depends". In most of these kinds of decisions, you're often making tradeoffs. If your expected battle scenarios are CQ, I wouldn't be so quick about ruling out pistol calibers. In my opinion, an M-1 Carbine makes a very nice "battle" rifle (I realize it's "just" a carbine!), if your expected battles are CQ.
precisionrifle14
Member
This would be a rifle that I could keep by the bed for home defense, throw it in the truck in case something were to happen, and grab it on the way out of my house in a WROL/SHTF situation without worrying about the gun jamming because I forgot the cleaning kit and dropped the gun in the dirt.
P.S. the local police department here is very very small, and they are slightly unequipped to handle anything much past a crazy guy with a handgun. Any scenario with multiple hostiles and long guns, and they wouldn't have the proper equipment at hand to handle that situation. 1 or 2 out of all of the police might have patrol rifle's, and there's no telling where they'll be when something happens. If something were to happen anywhere near my residence, I wouldn't want to solely trust the police to have the right gear.
Any legal or semi-legal urban defense situation will happen within 50 yards or less, so I'd leave out the .308 options - not to mention their massive penetration power for nearby houses or bystanders.
At MOST, I would pick a .30-30 or 7.62x39 option (AK47 or Vz.58), but you'd probably be best served by an AR or semi-auto pistol caliber carbine.
At MOST, I would pick a .30-30 or 7.62x39 option (AK47 or Vz.58), but you'd probably be best served by an AR or semi-auto pistol caliber carbine.
like it was mentioned before, it all depends on your situation. if i lived in town, my choice gun wouldnt be the Socom16, id probably switch over to one of my Mini14s due to the overpenetration the .308 is notorious for. but, since i live in the middle of nowhere i like big time firepower. here in rural Iowa we have meth freaks that target farms to steal anhydrous and will run you down with a car to get away. scary stuff
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
Seems to me the risk presented by someone trying to run you down with a car while fleeing the scene of a theft is not best met by firepower, but by not being in the road.
Rifles don't STOP cars in their tracks, and firing any weapon at someone attempting to flee is not lawful. Make sure you understand what constitutes lawful "self-defense," and what does not.
Ar180shooter
Member
What about the Sig 551-A1?
"Seems to me the risk presented by someone trying to run you down with a car while fleeing the scene of a theft is not best met by firepower, but by not being in the road."
im not talking about in the roads at all....these crazy SOBs pulled this stunt on a farmer checking on his tanks in the field after seeing headlights at 2 am. they drove thru a fenceline, turned around and made 2nd pass at him! i wasnt saying a .308 would stop a car, but if it was me, i wouldnt have hesitated to punch the guys clock thru the windshield. something i wouldnt wanna trust a .223 to do.
im not talking about in the roads at all....these crazy SOBs pulled this stunt on a farmer checking on his tanks in the field after seeing headlights at 2 am. they drove thru a fenceline, turned around and made 2nd pass at him! i wasnt saying a .308 would stop a car, but if it was me, i wouldnt have hesitated to punch the guys clock thru the windshield. something i wouldnt wanna trust a .223 to do.
briansmithwins
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Not cheap for a real one. The closest way I know to get one is buy a Sig 556 rifle upper and put it on one of these: http://www.cogunsales.com/index.php...ver-w/Swiss-Internals/flypage.pbv.v1.tpl.html
Bring your Swiss bank account.
BSW
precisionrifle14
Member
The Sig 551-A1 is an option if it would out-perform the other options I listed.
It's not that expensive compared to the other rifles I listed, I found one online for $1500.
Ar180shooter
Member
Not referring to the Swiss made Sig 55X series of rifles, but the new American made ones.
http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2011/07/12/new-sig-sig551a1/
I've heard they're a great improvement over the Sig Sauer 556 rifles.
The only thing lacking would be aftermarket support, but that's the case for pretty much everything that isn't an AR/AK/M1A.
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Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
"Outperform?" How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can YOU shoot beyond the speed and accuracy of either platform? Will YOU use one in conditions that would stop another rifle from functioning? Will YOU run one so many rounds between cleanings that it ceases to function (Google "Filthy 14" to see what an AR-15 can do...so far). Will YOU inflict damage to it that will destroy one but not another?
This thread reads like gear-head idolatry, for lack of willingness to use a less-THR-appropriate (but more apt) term.
You aren't picking a WIFE, you're picking a rifle. Just pick one. Smart money says you should choose one that will allow you the budget to buy what you REALLY need -- which is ammo, training, and range time. Then go shoot it until you wear it out. By the time you're done with that, you won't need so much advice.
Sheepdog1968
Member
What it sounds like is you want a reliable rifle that goes bang every time you pull the trigger. There is something to be said for the AK and the round is hard hitting. You wont need many midifications (ghost ring on rear and a mount to attach a light). In fact the less you do the better. There are some companies out there that sell reliable packages. Id go that direction based on OP.
Personally, as long as it is reliable and you are well trained to use it, just about any weapon will do.
Personally, as long as it is reliable and you are well trained to use it, just about any weapon will do.
precisionrifle14
Member
I'm trying to find a rifle for everything from WROL/SHTF to home defense to truck gun, and then anything else I want to do with it. If the rifle is used in WROL/SHTF, then I won't necessarily have any means of cleaning the rifle at all, or anything to lube it with either. I know that I may be over-doing it here, but I just want to be sure that I get the right gun the first time. Considering it's expected uses, the rifle will take a hard beating, no question about it. I don't want to be defending myself/family and have my rifle jam or have a part break because I wasn't able to maintain the rifle. Sorry if I'm going overboard, I'm one of those people who shops around and asks lots of questions. I guess it's the thought of trusting the rifle to keep me and my family safe that's getting to me."Outperform?" How many angels can dance on the head of a pin? Can YOU shoot beyond the speed and accuracy of either platform? Will YOU use one in conditions that would stop another rifle from functioning? Will YOU run one so many rounds between cleanings that it ceases to function (Google "Filthy 14" to see what an AR-15 can do...so far). Will YOU inflict damage to it that will destroy one but not another?
This thread reads like gear-head idolatry, for lack of willingness to use a less-THR-appropriate (but more apt) term.
You aren't picking a WIFE, you're picking a rifle. Just pick one. Smart money says you should choose one that will allow you the budget to buy what you REALLY need -- which is ammo, training, and range time. Then go shoot it until you wear it out. By the time you're done with that, you won't need so much advice.
The wife comment was pretty funny.
I know I'm doing it again, but is the 551-A1 any good, I haven't heard anything about it anywhere.
I'm trying to find a rifle for everything from WROL/SHTF to home defense to truck gun, and then anything else I want to do with it.
for the money you seem willing to spend you could get a solid RRA and a solid 870 and a solid glock and cover just about every base you are wanting to cover.....
for the money you seem willing to spend you could get a solid RRA and a solid 870 and a solid glock and cover just about every base you are wanting to cover.....
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