CC in NJ possible because of HR822?

Ranger30-06 · Mar 7, 2012

xXxplosive said:
And you can also use hollow points for SD in your residence or place of business.

Most certainly not! There was a guy a bit back that got arrested for a SD shooting where he used a HP bullet and wound up being charged with a felony.

Hunting with them is a moot point anyway, as you can only use shotguns anyway...

EDIT: Here's a link to possession of HP ammo. It doesn't say what is illegal, but rather the only times it is legal to posses. Hunting and target shooting are on there, but SD most certainly isn't. http://www.njsp.org/about/fire_hollow.html

xXxplosive · Mar 7, 2012

Correction: You can use rifles for Chucks in NJ and you can hand load HP's for
them.
You can use HP slugs for deer...ie 1oz. Remington.
You can use any legaly owned ammo for self defense in your home.

Please read the NJ Statutes and stop listening to others who only spread conjecture.....

Ranger30-06 · Mar 7, 2012

xXxplosive said:
Correction: You can use rifles for Chucks in NJ and you can hand load HP's for
them.
You can use HP slugs for deer...ie 1oz. Remington.
You can use any legaly owned ammo for self defense in your home.

Please read the NJ Statutes and stop listening to others who only spread conjecture.....

You can use a .22 rimfire only, and it falls under the "hunting" provision.
Please read the link I put up. It's from the state PD web site, and cites 4 very specific allowances for obtaining HP ammo:

Hunting
Target shooting
In your home or business
On your way directly to the range

I did read the statutes thank you very much. Can we get this thread back on topic please?

Tom488 · Mar 7, 2012

I did read the statutes thank you very much.

No, you didn't. You read a FAQ on a web site. Use of HP ammo in SD inside your home is not illegal, as possession of said ammo is still within one's home. It doesn't matter who was charged with what... it only matters who was CONVICTED of what. Police erroneously charge people all the time - doesn't make what they were doing illegal.

Let's play this game: you're a prosecutor. I defend myself from an attacker in my home, using HP ammo. What SPECIFIC statute are you going to charge me with, and why?

Ranger30-06 · Mar 7, 2012

Tom488 said:
Let's play this game: you're a prosecutor. I defend myself from an attacker in my home, using HP ammo. What SPECIFIC statute are you going to charge me with, and why?

Violation of N.J.S.A 26:39-6f by performing an activity outside of the provisions provided.

Activities contained in N.J.S.A 26:39-6f. can be broken down as follows:
1. A member of a rifle or pistol club organized under rules of the National Board for the Promotion of Rifle
Practice and which filed its charter with the State Police;
2. A person engaged in hunting or target practice with a firearm legal for hunting in this State;
3. A person going directly to a target range, and;
4. A person going directly to an authorized place for "practice, match, target, trap or skeet shooting
exhibitions."

Yes, it's retarded, but this is Jersey. :fire:

bhesler · Mar 7, 2012

The hollow point law is actually NJSA 2C:39-3f
...(1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, ... is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. ...

Then there is the exception in NJSA 2C:39-3g
...(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. ...

Then the exceptions previously listed as part of NJSA 2C:39-6f (which the state police website improperly lists as 26:39-6f)

So, knowingly possessing a hollow point round is illegal, except it is OK in your home, or hunting, or target practicing, or on the way to/from the range, or from the store where it was purchased to your home. Nothing in the law says that it is illegal to use the hollow points, just to possess them knowingly.

dprice3844444 · Mar 7, 2012

ahhhhhhh,hasbrouck heights.spent my first 14 years there,moved to fla in 1969.

Ranger30-06 · Mar 7, 2012

bhesler said:
The hollow point law is actually NJSA 2C:39-3f
...(1) Any person, other than a law enforcement officer or persons engaged in activities pursuant to subsection f. of N.J.S.2C:39-6, who knowingly has in his possession any hollow nose or dum-dum bullet, ... is guilty of a crime of the fourth degree. ...

Then there is the exception in NJSA 2C:39-3g
...(2) a. Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him, or from carrying such ammunition from the place of purchase to said dwelling or land, nor shall subsection f. ...

Then the exceptions previously listed as part of NJSA 2C:39-6f (which the state police website improperly lists as 26:39-6f)

So, knowingly possessing a hollow point round is illegal, except it is OK in your home, or hunting, or target practicing, or on the way to/from the range, or from the store where it was purchased to your home. Nothing in the law says that it is illegal to use the hollow points, just to possess them knowingly.

So in short, they are illegal unless covered by one of the exceptions, which HD is not one of.

xXxplosive · Mar 7, 2012

Guy.............in your home you can use a Chandelier if you can yank it off the ceiling to defend against a viable threat.......hollow points also.

Stop spredding.............BS and read the Law.

That's it.........done.

Bonesinium · Mar 8, 2012

Ranger30-06 said:
So in short, they are illegal unless covered by one of the exceptions, which HD is not one of.

Reading what you quote is usually helpful. But since you didn't, not much else can be said. Nonetheless, I'll quote it again.

Nothing in subsection f. (1) shall be construed to prevent a person from keeping such ammunition at his dwelling, premises or other land owned or possessed by him...

Ranger30-06 · Mar 8, 2012

Keeping is not the same as using. The reason you can "keep" hollow point ammo is for one of the other provisions, which are target shooting and hunting. Did you guys miss the part where it says that HP bullets are automatically illegal except for those certain provisions?

bhesler · Mar 8, 2012

Here is the loophole to the law. The law only makes knowingly being in possession illegal, and is silent on use. Any bullet that is fired and comes to rest in your property, is still in your possession, and is being "kept". Any bullet that strikes the bad guy is no longer in your possession, but in the bad guy's possession. So, if you do shoot a bad guy with a hollow point, make sure to tell him, so he will then knowingly be in possession, and can be charged as such. :evil:

Bonesinium · Mar 8, 2012

Ranger30-06 said:
Keeping is not the same as using. The reason you can "keep" hollow point ammo is for one of the other provisions, which are target shooting and hunting. Did you guys miss the part where it says that HP bullets are automatically illegal except for those certain provisions?

So if keeping and using are different, and there is nothing written about using, by your own example, which is presumably that since keeping=to have in your possesion, you must no longer posses those hollow points, so they can't charge you with having them illegally if you no longer have the ones you used! After all, any others you have, you are just keeping for those other legal purposes right?

Unless of course you ignore the law, ignore your own examples that are contrary to the law anyways, and just manifest in your own mind that they are illegal, then of course you can do/say whatever you want.

I'm with bhesler. Just make sure all hollow points you were keeping are shot into someone else, then charge the person shot with the illegal possession charge or whatever you seem to think it is.

Ranger30-06 · Mar 8, 2012

Ok, I'm done running around this point. If you want to use hollow points, feel free, and post what happens on here so the rest of us know for sure.

Any following posts should be on the original topic. Thanks.

Tom488 · Mar 9, 2012

Keeping is not the same as using.

Then, by your logic, you can't use your handgun for SD, either - because "possession of a handgun without a permit to carry is generally illegal (2C:39-5b), unless covered under one of the exemptions (2C:39-6)". So, since SD isn't an exemption under 2C:39-6, I guess using your handgun for SD is illegal, too, yes?

General Geoff · Mar 9, 2012

Tom488, I wouldn't be surprised if a prosecutor charged you for it.

Bonesinium · Mar 9, 2012

General Geoff said:
Tom488, I wouldn't be surprised if a prosecutor charged you for it.

I wouldn't either. But that doesn't mean they are correct. When it boils down to it, in NJ, it might not matter how right you are, or even what the law says. That is the sad reality, as you noted.

Tom488 · Mar 9, 2012

I wouldn't be surprised if a prosecutor charged you for it.

It happens all the time... I've read of several instances where people get charged with, among other things, possession of hollow-point ammo in their own home. The charges always get dropped (or used as a bargaining chip to get a guilty plea on other crimes). The latest one that comes to mind was someone arrested for unlawful possession of stolen rifles... and HP ammo. "Look, if you plead to the stolen rifles, we'll drop the HP charge. Good deal, right?"

The bottom line is, it's black-letter law. "Nothing shall be construed to prevent the possession of HP ammo in one's home". Period. You can NOT be convicted of 2C:39-3f, possession of hollow-nose ammunition (convicted being the operative word here... a ham sandwich can be charged with, and indicted for, anything) for possessing or USING hollow-points in your home. Any one who thinks to the contrary is simply failing at basic reading comprehension.

CC in NJ possible because of HR822?

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