Police arrest target shooter

Status
Not open for further replies.
This is why you need a combo lock to a safe. Conveniently forget the combination, and tell the pigs to kiss your rear.
 
This sort of situation disgusts me. So many cops have either a lack of knowledge or a lack of regard for the U.S. Constitution. He wasn't too smart reaching for his cell phone though. I mean why do that?

This also reminds me to never live in California.
 
Where did you come up with that number P-32? I know a lot of cops, including family members. If I were to guess at a number like you did, I'd put it at around 50%.

I did more than have family members for LEO's, or know a couple of Cops, I worked with a group of good hard working LEO's trying to make the people they work for quailty of life better. I did this for over 18 years before I had to retire for medical reasons. Thats how.

What happened in this incident was plain goofy and somebody needs a kick in the butt. I just don't want to see this turn into a cop bashing thread over some dumb Cailf Cops who forgot their training.

I worked with Video in the vehicle's wiith mikes on the officer and in the car. I did not mind the video recordings at all. In fact a review often showed our officer did nothing wrong.

InThe reason most cops won't let you record is in most states require a two party consent. We had to tell the driver of every traffic stop they were being recorded and if someone didn't want to be recorded we turned everything off.

I myself have been on simular gun calls. These were not on private propeperty. You don't know what or who you are walking into. One was a call where the caller was shot. We had to clear and let the EMT's in as soon as we could. Others calls were for shots going near houses. I was able to tell the person thier shots were going bear houses and they would stop shooting.

Of course we checked ID's that is just good police work. I got a warrent on a passenger in a car not wearing his seat belt for 1.75 Mil on 11 counts of sexual assault from another State. I was more tham happy to rake that bone head to the local county bed and breakfast.

You also have to take into account, I viewed carry permit holders as my possiable backup. As a competitive shooter, I did not feel wierd around fellow armed shooters. Even if I had not met them before. When I was off work, I was off work. I ride with a gtoup of motorcycle riders. They were always good about not going too fast down the road out of respect for me. I'm good with about 10 over.
 
Unless one knows 100% of the cops out there, its impossible to say with anything even approaching any degree of accuracy that "98%" are good cops. I don't care how much experience you have, what you know applies only to those you've encountered, and you can't simply apply that universally across the board. Every region, every state, every county, and every city is different, and have different levels of what they'll accept from their officers. I've noticed great differences in police styles and techniques from one area to another. Some departments are extremely professional, while others are incompetent to the point you wonder how their department received any accreditation whatsoever.

I agree this doesn't need to be a "cop bashing" thread, but I also don't see anything wrong with taking grossly incompetent officers to task for their actions either. Its true...a few bad apples DO spoil the whole damn bunch....but until the "thin blue line" quits protecting their own instead of outing officers not up to par, the spoilage will continue, and law enforcement in general will suffer the black eye for what a few have done. Until the police police themselves, their reputation is up for grabs. I'll never condemn a cop I think is doing the job to the best of their ability, but nor will i ever defend incompetence in a field that is so vital to be professional in, nor make excuses when people's rights have been violated by the police.

The officers in the clip were condemned here for a reason. Not only did they handle the situation extremely poorly, violating the man's civil rights, but after the arrest, actively conspired among one another how to handle the illegal search that was ALREADY conducted. Rather than one good cop standing ujp and doing the right thing, yo have a variety of officers actively working together to attempt to justify their illegal actions. I think its safe to say that on that particular scene, "98%" of the officers weren't "good cops". As the saying goes, the only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. If there WAS a good cop on the scene, he chose to remain quiet, allowing, at least for that moment, evil to triumph....and this doesn't seem to be all that rare among police. If you're familiar with case of Officer Harless with Canton, OH, PD.....where he basically threatend to execute a legal permit holder who...in his opinion didn't inform him he was carrying soon enough....you'll notice HIS partner did nothing as well, not even appearing remotely shocked by the behavior he was witnessing. Its incidents like this that color public opinion, and there's only one way to combat it....police officers policing their own ranks just as diligently as they patrol the streets. The sooner we get the bad apples off the streets, the safer the rest of the cop crop will be in the court of public opinion.
 
Last edited:
Here's a quote from William Pitt in Parliament in 1763:

The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance
to all the force of the crown. It may be frail--its
roof may shake--the wind may blow through it--the
storm may enter, the rain may enter --but the
King of England cannot enter --all his force dares not
cross the threshold of the ruined tenement.

The Fourth Amendment has been repealed, not by due constitutional process, but from a slow whittling process by compliant rubber-stamp judges.

May I once again present the reason for the Bill Of rights? This is in the Preamble to that document, and is rarely noted. Boldface mine.

Constitution as Ratified by the States
December 15, 1791
Preamble

Congress OF THE United States
begun and held at the City of New York, on Wednesday
the Fourth of March, one thousand seven hundred and eighty nine.

THE Conventions of a number of the States having at the time of their adopting the Constitution, expressed a desire, in order to prevent misconstruction or abuse of its powers, that further declaratory and restrictive clauses should be added: And as extending the ground of public confidence in the Government, will best insure the beneficent ends of its institution

RESOLVED by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America, in Congress assembled, two thirds of both Houses concurring, that the following Articles be proposed to the Legislatures of the several States, as Amendments to the Constitution of the United States, all or any of which Articles, when ratified by three fourths of the said Legislatures, to be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of the said Constitution; viz.:

ARTICLES in addition to, and Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America, proposed by Congress, and ratified by the Legislatures of the several States, pursuant to the fifth Article of the original Constitution...

Terry, 230RN
 
Last edited:
Its incidents like this that color public opinion, and there's only one way to combat it....police officers policing their own ranks just as diligently as they patrol the streets. The sooner we get the bad apples off the streets, the safer the rest of the cop crop will be in the court of public opinion.

I agree with that.

When I was a child I was taught that "the Police are your friends".

As I experienced life, that tarnished to "the Police are just doing thier jobs".

Now I'm at the point where "the police are just another street gang to be avoided".

I'm not trying to bash, but even some of the LEO I personally know have become "bad blue".
 
As I experienced life, that tarnished to "the Police are just doing their jobs".

Indeed. I have experienced cops say exactly that, there are many videos out there that show cops saying exactly that. It saddens me that the response of anybody in authority about doing something they believe is wrong if they are told to do so is "I just follow orders" or "I'm just doing my job" or "I don't make the laws I just enforce them". I see this all the time, not just amongst police, but with people in all facets of government...public officials, judges, representatives, military, feds, etc.

I understand why though. While integrity is often doing the right thing when nobody is looking, it is even harder to do the right thing when everybody is looking, and you are being told to do something else.
 
Everyone is innocent until proven guilty of something in a court of law and, in this case, includes both the subject of that search and seizure and the cops themselves if in fact they violated any laws.

So nobody think even by a second that the law applies to a citizen 'more' than another, whether you have a badge or not.

When it comes to the most fundamental rights granted by the constitution the same applies to everyone. Because if not there are so many layers of nonsense laws and everything is so confusing these days that the law might be subject to the arbitrary interpretation in specific state, city or group of people.
The right to bear arms is not taken away but all the BS is still there and that is why everyone is so confused about everything regarding bans and yes they should apply to LE equally. Still the ban is not so severe but if it goes further that could be the basis for a case to be brought the supreme court too.

Regarding the cops that did the seizure...

A LEO that is given an order that might be consider by the individual (look as it as any civilian) violating any constitutional right or consider unlawful has the right to say no because his oath to obey by the constitution automatically overwrites any chain of command. Military have that right too if I am not mistaken?

But unfortunately some LEOs or Military, etc.., sometimes get confused by the circumstances and only takes a veteran and some 'department or unit' peer pressure to go and play along when in fact they might be committing a crime themselves w/o being maybe too obvious in the heat of the moment.

I also think the big issue is not the fact that someone makes a mistake, but what we do after the mistake is recognized and we are in a position of power. Do we use that power to cover up the situation or should we be honest and recognize it?

I have the up-most respect for any police, military, fireman, etc.. that risk their lives on a daily basis for their communities and their country so we should not flag everyone for the actions of a few others.
 
When it comes to the most fundamental rights granted by the constitution...

The Constitution does not grant you rights.

It enjoins the government from violating pre-existing rights.
 
My understanding is that you can record LEO while performing their jobs

AS they are recording YOU
they are PUBLIC officers
and they have NO expectation of privacy while performing their PUBLIC job.

OH, and the don't video me laws that a number of states and local LEA have tried to use to persecute citizens have been struck down, cause I can video ANYTHING in public, just like you can take pics on the sidewalk outside a gunshow...
 
Courts have repeatedly held that you may tape a cop when they are performing their job. That does not mean however they wont arrest/harass you for doing it.
 
My understanding is that you can record LEO while performing their jobs.
(snip)
they have NO expectation of privacy while performing their PUBLIC job
You can record them. If they get snippy just tell them it's for their protection. :)

A public servant, in a public place, performing in offical capacity. Absolutely no way they can expect to have any privacy.

-=-=-


That does not mean however they wont arrest/harass you for doing it.
I've seen a Youtube vid where a guy was recording a traffic stop in front of his house, from his garage, and the cop came and tried to steal the camera and arrest him.
 
IN SLO (San Luis Obispo), this is my "home town." I am surprised the Sheriff acted this way, usually its the local PD that fly off the wall...

Everyone always wondered why I called it California.

I don't remember the local news picking this up.... I was still in the area when this happened.
 
"I just follow orders" or "I'm just doing my job" or "I don't make the laws I just enforce them"

I thought that defense did not work in Nuremberg.
 
"I just follow orders" or "I'm just doing my job" or "I don't make the laws I just enforce them"

I thought that defense did not work in Nuremberg.
It didn't which is exactly my point. Unfortunately that doesn't prevent it from still happening, and it also doesn't mean they are held accountable.
 
Intercooler said:
Dave really? What would the safe distance be on a high power rifle?

hogshead said:
10 yards if you have a safe backstop. Even if he was guilty of nd [which the court said he wasn't ] they had no right to search his house. Your missing the whole point. His 4th amendment rights were violated his guns were seized and your worried about how much land he owns.

Yes Intercooler, you are completely missing the point but that doesn't keep you from coming back to it over and over. This story demonstrates a clear violation of this man's 4th amendment rights and is a perfect example of illegal search and seizure, by a gaggle of buffoonish LEO's. That's what matters.

Keep talking about the size of his lot or whether he should be allowed to shoot there (he should). It's completely irrelevant.
 
Yes Intercooler, you are completely missing the point but that doesn't keep you from coming back to it over and over. This story demonstrates a clear violation of this man's 4th amendment rights and is a perfect example of illegal search and seizure, by a gaggle of buffoonish LEO's. That's what matters.

Keep talking about the size of his lot or whether he should be allowed to shoot there (he should). It's completely irrelevant.
The size of his lot and the nature of any backstop present are relevant to whether he was discharging the firearm in a manner negligent to the safety of those around him.
 
Good Lord!! It has been stated several times and is in the video that he was shooting into a berm. What more do you want?

The dimensions of the land are immaterial...it has already been established that he was NOT being reckless..
 
The size of his lot and the nature of any backstop present are relevant to whether he was discharging the firearm in a manner negligent to the safety of those around him.


10 acres to discharge a firearm.. Does that make it right?/

What about 'shall not be infringed'??
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by raubvogel
"I just follow orders" or "I'm just doing my job" or "I don't make the laws I just enforce them"

I thought that defense did not work in Nuremberg.
It didn't which is exactly my point. Unfortunately that doesn't prevent it from still happening, and it also doesn't mean they are held accountable.

Not it didn't that is why law enforcement, military need to be aware that if in the process of taking an order someone believes that they might be engaging in something unlawful they have the right to say now and that if they do they might be found accountable and will have to answer before a judge. Hitler was very smart, first he created his secret machine including the secret police so I am sure many people had to follow suit based on fear alone.
So the Nazis, even if some military didn't like what they were doing according to their morals they had to do it or risk being arrested by the SS or even shot.
That is not the case here.
 
"I just follow orders" or "I'm just doing my job" or "I don't make the laws I just enforce them"

I thought that defense did not work in Nuremberg.
KINDA
if they were following orders the police union AND department will defend them short of tossing the entire chain of command to the wolves, as it's cheaper to claim they were in the right when the civil penalty phase of the trial kicks in, maybe limiting what the jury is willing to make them pay the 'bad' guy. It ends up a political/money issue.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top