coloradokevin
Member
- Joined
- Mar 22, 2008
- Messages
- 3,285
I just returned from my first ever (and probably only) trip to New York City, and wanted to share my story with those of you who might wonder about the gun culture in such a place. For many years I've avoided NYC like the plague, partially because of its anti-liberty attitude (ironic given the statue), but mostly due to my overall aversion to nearly all things BIG city related. But, I've got a brother who relocated to that area, and my girlfriend has a lot of family out there. As such, after years of avoiding NYC like the plague, I finally traveled there to see family, and the various sights.
What a mess! That place is nothing short of a nightmare for gun owners, despite the fact that it is probably one of those places where having a gun for self-defense would be a very prudent thing to do if it wouldn't land you in jail. Unfortunately, it seems all but impossible for a regular citizen to have a gun (legally) in that city!
Since a bit of background about myself is necessary to fully explain this story, I must mention that I work as a full-time police officer here in my home state, and my state is fairly relaxed on gun laws. Although the terms of my employment state that I am to be armed while on and off duty, until a few years ago we were cautioned against trying to carry in places like NY state. However, thanks to the enactment of 18 USC 926B (the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, 2004), I'm now covered by federal law for the sake of concealed carry (at its most basic level) in the various states.
Anyway, I took my backup gun with me on this trip, which is a Glock 26. This gun was checked into my luggage at my home airport, in the usual manner that many of you are probably familiar with (hard sided locked case inside of an item of checked luggage, gun unloaded, ammo in an ammo box). I retrieved the baggage containing my firearm at Laguardia airport in the ordinary manner.
During the course of my travels in this city, it quickly became evident that carrying a firearm is a tough thing to do even for a fully commissioned law enforcement officer. Many of the buildings clearly listed that they were restricted to the point that only the NYPD or NY State Police were allowed to carry there, and weapons screening locations were conveniently located in many other places, just after the point where crowds would gather.
So, despite being able to legally carry a gun in the city (while most people are sadly restricted beyond that level), I still found that I couldn't really effectively carry my gun and go anywhere that I might want to see as a tourist. As such, it pretty much sat at the place where I was staying for most of the trip, instead of being with me where it could do some good for me and the other decent citizens in the area. I really hate leaving my weapon behind when exploring an unfamiliar city, since it is so easy to find yourself in an area of town that you would have intentionally avoided if you had known the area.
While I'm on the subject of these restrictions, I ought to mention that some of the "gun free zones" in this city really didn't make any sense to me at all. I went down to lower Manhattan to visit the 9/11 Memorial site yesterday. The memorial itself was nicely put together, with a pretty fountain pouring into the exact footprint of each of the twin towers, and the names of the victims listed around the perimeter of these memorials. It was a nice park-like setting, which was fitting for such a memorial. However, the city of NY has decided to surround the site (probably 15 acres or more) with a large fence. Then, everyone going into the site has to subject themselves to a weapons screening that isn't all that much different than the airport security we all deal with these days! So, instead of being able to walk up to an open memorial park and reflect on that tragic event, you now have to stand in an amusement park-like maze to go through security before you can approach the memorial fountains.
Despite the tragedy of 9/11, anyone could recognize that this site would obviously serve as a very poor target for attack, just given the nature of the park-like atmosphere and lack of target concentration. However, the queue of hundreds of people waiting to get through the security point to enter this park would probably make a far more enticing target to someone who was willing to do harm to others in such a place. As such, it served as another prime example of "security theater" in a gun free zone. It makes the little lambs feel safer, while probably putting them at more risk of harm.
Anyway, a lot of that type of silliness was anticipated before I ever stepped off of the plane. I figured NY would be a pain to deal with, and it was definitely not a friendly city for the gun owners. But, the icing on the cake came today when I returned to Laguardia airport for my flight home. I approached the airline's counter and declared the firearm in my checked bag in the usual manner (it was stored in the usual manner). At every other airport I've ever been to with a gun (about 12 so far), the ticketing agent then calls a TSA agent over to hand-check the baggage item that contains the firearm. Not so in NYC! The ticketing agent tells me that he's required to call the police on any guns that are being checked. I asked him if the TSA was going to check the bag, and he responded that the police need to talk to me first (he already knew I was a police officer at this time ). The ticketing agent, who had already made a couple of phone calls on the console phone right in front of me, then walks down the line away from me, picks up another phone, and presumably calls the police as he stood there looking at me as if I was some sort of trouble maker.
A few minutes later (as I stood there waiting to check my bags at the front of the line) I was approached by 3 NYC Port Authority police officers, who were apparently assigned to handle such matters. They were polite to me, but were obviously on a mission from the outset. Two of the officers were fairly decent to talk with, but I definitely got the impression that it would have been an entirely different story (regarding my checked firearm) if I had not been a cop. The third guy was all business, and approached me about like this:
"I need to see your driver's license and your department credentials, I also need you to open that bag, and the gun case. We need the serial number from your gun, we need to know what kind of ammo you're carrying, and I need your home address and phone number".
This all surprised me a bit, since I was checking a firearm in the exact same manner that any other private citizen was allowed to at my home airport (and most other airports). Regardless, I have nothing to hide and politely complied with their requests. But, it got better. The contact officer (the most down-to-business of the three) then pulls my gun out of the case, in front of the entire line of people who would be on my flight, and holds it up to read the serial number, so that it was clearly visible to anyone standing in the line (30-40 people). He then asks me what kind of ammo I'm carrying and how many rounds. I played my hand close to the vest on that one and just said: "It's whatever my department issues, and it is just one 10-round magazine worth". That statement was entirely true, but I didn't want to go into great detail about my ammo, since I'm not entirely sure how NY views JHP rounds.
After this part was over, the officers (all 3) walked me over to the TSA guy, who then searched me bag. They then walked me back to the counter to deliver my bag to the original ticketing agent.
As a fellow lawman, the officers were happy to talk with me for a while after the bag check was complete, and I had no problem talking to them (I know as well as they do that these policies are set well above their heads). It was during this time that I learned that they routinely arrest out of state residents for carrying firearms without the necessary NY license to do so. They naturally mentioned that my LE status exempts me from that law, but did seem to make it sound like such arrests are business as usual in NYC for other citizens.
After getting home tonight I attempted to read more about NYC firearms rules, and discovered that they're quite messy (and expensive... something like $340 to apply, and $95 for fingerprints). I also found an interesting tidbit on Wikipedia about arrests being made at NYC airports for the possession of otherwise legally owned, stored, and checked firearms (scroll down to the non-resident section):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#Non-resident_travel_through_N.Y.
Another article shows that someone else was arrested for trying to check a gun at Laguardia in recent months:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/
The moral of this story? Don't carry a gun in NYC! Better yet, don't go to NYC. Come to CO instead, and we'll take you out shooting.
I really just can't believe that NYC can get away with these policies in THIS country.
What a mess! That place is nothing short of a nightmare for gun owners, despite the fact that it is probably one of those places where having a gun for self-defense would be a very prudent thing to do if it wouldn't land you in jail. Unfortunately, it seems all but impossible for a regular citizen to have a gun (legally) in that city!
Since a bit of background about myself is necessary to fully explain this story, I must mention that I work as a full-time police officer here in my home state, and my state is fairly relaxed on gun laws. Although the terms of my employment state that I am to be armed while on and off duty, until a few years ago we were cautioned against trying to carry in places like NY state. However, thanks to the enactment of 18 USC 926B (the Law Enforcement Officer Safety Act, 2004), I'm now covered by federal law for the sake of concealed carry (at its most basic level) in the various states.
Anyway, I took my backup gun with me on this trip, which is a Glock 26. This gun was checked into my luggage at my home airport, in the usual manner that many of you are probably familiar with (hard sided locked case inside of an item of checked luggage, gun unloaded, ammo in an ammo box). I retrieved the baggage containing my firearm at Laguardia airport in the ordinary manner.
During the course of my travels in this city, it quickly became evident that carrying a firearm is a tough thing to do even for a fully commissioned law enforcement officer. Many of the buildings clearly listed that they were restricted to the point that only the NYPD or NY State Police were allowed to carry there, and weapons screening locations were conveniently located in many other places, just after the point where crowds would gather.
So, despite being able to legally carry a gun in the city (while most people are sadly restricted beyond that level), I still found that I couldn't really effectively carry my gun and go anywhere that I might want to see as a tourist. As such, it pretty much sat at the place where I was staying for most of the trip, instead of being with me where it could do some good for me and the other decent citizens in the area. I really hate leaving my weapon behind when exploring an unfamiliar city, since it is so easy to find yourself in an area of town that you would have intentionally avoided if you had known the area.
While I'm on the subject of these restrictions, I ought to mention that some of the "gun free zones" in this city really didn't make any sense to me at all. I went down to lower Manhattan to visit the 9/11 Memorial site yesterday. The memorial itself was nicely put together, with a pretty fountain pouring into the exact footprint of each of the twin towers, and the names of the victims listed around the perimeter of these memorials. It was a nice park-like setting, which was fitting for such a memorial. However, the city of NY has decided to surround the site (probably 15 acres or more) with a large fence. Then, everyone going into the site has to subject themselves to a weapons screening that isn't all that much different than the airport security we all deal with these days! So, instead of being able to walk up to an open memorial park and reflect on that tragic event, you now have to stand in an amusement park-like maze to go through security before you can approach the memorial fountains.
Despite the tragedy of 9/11, anyone could recognize that this site would obviously serve as a very poor target for attack, just given the nature of the park-like atmosphere and lack of target concentration. However, the queue of hundreds of people waiting to get through the security point to enter this park would probably make a far more enticing target to someone who was willing to do harm to others in such a place. As such, it served as another prime example of "security theater" in a gun free zone. It makes the little lambs feel safer, while probably putting them at more risk of harm.
Anyway, a lot of that type of silliness was anticipated before I ever stepped off of the plane. I figured NY would be a pain to deal with, and it was definitely not a friendly city for the gun owners. But, the icing on the cake came today when I returned to Laguardia airport for my flight home. I approached the airline's counter and declared the firearm in my checked bag in the usual manner (it was stored in the usual manner). At every other airport I've ever been to with a gun (about 12 so far), the ticketing agent then calls a TSA agent over to hand-check the baggage item that contains the firearm. Not so in NYC! The ticketing agent tells me that he's required to call the police on any guns that are being checked. I asked him if the TSA was going to check the bag, and he responded that the police need to talk to me first (he already knew I was a police officer at this time ). The ticketing agent, who had already made a couple of phone calls on the console phone right in front of me, then walks down the line away from me, picks up another phone, and presumably calls the police as he stood there looking at me as if I was some sort of trouble maker.
A few minutes later (as I stood there waiting to check my bags at the front of the line) I was approached by 3 NYC Port Authority police officers, who were apparently assigned to handle such matters. They were polite to me, but were obviously on a mission from the outset. Two of the officers were fairly decent to talk with, but I definitely got the impression that it would have been an entirely different story (regarding my checked firearm) if I had not been a cop. The third guy was all business, and approached me about like this:
"I need to see your driver's license and your department credentials, I also need you to open that bag, and the gun case. We need the serial number from your gun, we need to know what kind of ammo you're carrying, and I need your home address and phone number".
This all surprised me a bit, since I was checking a firearm in the exact same manner that any other private citizen was allowed to at my home airport (and most other airports). Regardless, I have nothing to hide and politely complied with their requests. But, it got better. The contact officer (the most down-to-business of the three) then pulls my gun out of the case, in front of the entire line of people who would be on my flight, and holds it up to read the serial number, so that it was clearly visible to anyone standing in the line (30-40 people). He then asks me what kind of ammo I'm carrying and how many rounds. I played my hand close to the vest on that one and just said: "It's whatever my department issues, and it is just one 10-round magazine worth". That statement was entirely true, but I didn't want to go into great detail about my ammo, since I'm not entirely sure how NY views JHP rounds.
After this part was over, the officers (all 3) walked me over to the TSA guy, who then searched me bag. They then walked me back to the counter to deliver my bag to the original ticketing agent.
As a fellow lawman, the officers were happy to talk with me for a while after the bag check was complete, and I had no problem talking to them (I know as well as they do that these policies are set well above their heads). It was during this time that I learned that they routinely arrest out of state residents for carrying firearms without the necessary NY license to do so. They naturally mentioned that my LE status exempts me from that law, but did seem to make it sound like such arrests are business as usual in NYC for other citizens.
After getting home tonight I attempted to read more about NYC firearms rules, and discovered that they're quite messy (and expensive... something like $340 to apply, and $95 for fingerprints). I also found an interesting tidbit on Wikipedia about arrests being made at NYC airports for the possession of otherwise legally owned, stored, and checked firearms (scroll down to the non-resident section):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_New_York#Non-resident_travel_through_N.Y.
Another article shows that someone else was arrested for trying to check a gun at Laguardia in recent months:
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57344080/tea-partys-mark-meckler-arrested-on-gun-charge/
The moral of this story? Don't carry a gun in NYC! Better yet, don't go to NYC. Come to CO instead, and we'll take you out shooting.
I really just can't believe that NYC can get away with these policies in THIS country.
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