mini14 or sport AR (most likely S&W) $635

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I own both a Mini 14 and an AR. For fun time at the range, plinking cans and low volume shooting the Mini is great. For competition or high volume shooting and hard use I take the AR. Both are fun but both have a different use, at least for me.
 
failure rate for m-4

"The M4 received a number of strong requests from M-16 users, who liked its smaller profile. Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.” The report adds that “Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached [including via official means like rail mounts].” Since “accessories” can include items like night sights, flashlights, etc., their use is not expected to go away any time soon"

In other words, the m-4 jams when dirty but it is more accurate. The new mini has 2-3 in groups and you can hit a deer or man at 300 yards.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/
 
thanks again for the info. really helpful. looks like in the end would probably get both platforms. but a bit more info..im def high drag low speed guy now. swapped over all revolvers (previously owned only semis) due to not practicing as often and putting my balance more towards 5-7 "for sure" off hand/weak hand even though i shoot a 1911 better in ideal conditions i shoot a revolver better in bad conditions.

so looking for the platform that well work for defense when chosen over my 870s or. 357s within house or couple acre yard (so not 300yds for this "need") and will be most tolerant of less then ideal conditions/ammo selection and a few days before thorough cleaning.

like the mods for the ar platform though aside from laser grips/night sights on my revolvers and ghost ring and light on my 870s i dont typically go for adding stuff to em (really dont like how the light changes the feel of the 870 but worth the tradeoff to me).

do like the folding stock option on the mini as would fit in a bin in trunk of car for travel and storage drawer in bed frame. do t go for folding stocks on my 879s but have one setup that way for the same reasons.

thanks again. can see the merits of both so trying determine not which is "better" but better for my situation
 
FlyinBryan is dead on "manhole cover" lol,,, perfect description. Exactly the reason my mini14 got replaced by the ar platform... Manhole cover ..:: lmao...
 
wingslevel said:
hello, i'm looking for a new carbine primarily for home defense and occasional plinking/fun. it will be taken care of/not neglected but i dont wanna fuss over it or have to deal withfinicky parts, feeding or extracting. it'll spend 95% of it's time in the safe and 5% at the range (hopefully no % in actual defense of my family).

i am pleased with my 870express (so for my amount of shooting and care ive been happy with it even though i have several wingmasters so looking for something as a tool not a bragging right) and myS&W .357s that round out my defensive choices.

as an armchair researcher my basis is in the sub$700 the ars coukd be a bit more maintnance/deliberation whike returning better accuracy and more options to customize whike the mini was more robust/forgiving action but with less accuracy and pretty much stuck with how it is outta the box.

for my stated uses for a similar orice would you opt for a sporter style ar (no forward assist/dustcover) like the S&W or a mini14?

thanks
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Mini 14
Pros: - Good accuracy with Iron sights.
- Lightweight (partly because its a little harder to mount tacky-cool doo-dads to a mini 14...they arent dripping with picatinny rails)
- Not picky about ammo.
- Manual of arms is simpler and more intuitive (IMHO). Press-checks, Chamber checks are simpler because of the open-top action.
- usually cheaper than an AR.
- True Ambidextrous safety and magazine release.
- Classic good looks.

Cons: - Less options for mounting optics.
- No way to get a Co-witness optic/iron sight package short of custom making it yourself.
- Non-tactical models do not have a threaded barrel for mounting flash surpressors etc.
- Accuracy, while good is not quite as good as AR's - generally speaking.
- Much smaller catalog of aftermarket accessories.

AR-15
Pros: - Accuracy potential is higher.
- Magazines come in more flavors, and are cheaper (usually)
- More Accessories...literally hundreds of companies making every sort of doo-dad you can imagine.
- Can get good co-witness optic/iron sight setups.
- the Magazine release setup is nicer than the Mini 14. Means faster mag-changes for competition, if that is your thing.
- The dust cover over the ejection port means that if you take your rifle out into the field, you are less likely to get dust/dirt/debris stuck in your rifle.

Cons: - Personally Seen two of them jam up, requiring a cleaning rod to pound out the stuck casing.
- They seem to be more sensitive to crappy ammo...at least the ones I have seen. Handloads that jam up my buddy's AR, run fine in my Mini14.
- price is usually higher than a Mini14
- Awkward placement of the charging handle - yes it's ambidextrous, but its still in a dumb spot. Most folks find they have to dismount the rifle from their shoulder to clear a malfunction.
- Clearing jams is(generally) more difficult than on a mini14. You have a hard time seeing what is happening (side ejection port vs Mini 14 open-top) and the placement of the charging handle (see previous point) contribute to this.
- Looks like a machine gun to liberals and non-gun people. (NOTE: the positives or negatives of this point can be debated...endlessly)

My advice is this. If you are going to buy this thing, use it once and a while and mostly just keep it for "just in case" scenarios...go with the Mini14. Get 3 or 4 magazines that work properly and a proper sling and skip the optics.

If you think you might get more serious and do some target shooting, 3-gun comps, or something like that. Get the AR. AR's will handle high volume shooting better and have a LOT more options that are easily added/subtracted.

That's my two cents.
 
I have a s&w mp15 OR (optics ready) with a eotec holographic sight installed I bought as a package from gander mountain last summer for a little over $1200 out the door taxes and all. Pretty good deal considering I've seen the rifle alone go for $1100 at the same Gander mountain and the eotec for a tad over $400. I only have a few hundred rounds through it but its run flawlessly. The only thing that I see as a downside to the sporter mp15 you're looking at is the barrel is not chrome lined like the pricier s&w car's so the barrel life will be quite a bit shorter. I'd recommend s&w , it works well for me. But then again its my first and only ar I have so I can't really compare it to anything.
 
My experience with both contains a bunch if's, and's or but's.

At this price level--I'd have to go Mini as it more fairly compares with the top tier AR's rather than the cheapies.

I had a post '05 Mini---made after the re-tooling but before the heavy tapered barrels---than would easily place every shot in 12in by 12in steel plate at 300yds----all with the cheap surplus ammo. Plenty accurate to hit a man sized target.

A Mini needs FACTORY magazines to be reliable--they do cost more but are made to a much higher standard than AR mags--the original aluminium AR mags were considered disposable by the military----Magpuls are much better in this reguard.

I've never had a Mini jam using FACTORY mags---this is in over 25 years of owning and shooting Mini's----aftermarket mags are a crapshoot but the jams were easy to clear.

I've had 2 AR's jam regularly(Bushmaster and DPMS) and were NOT easily cleared----but then again I've never had a Colt or a parts gun(using DD and BCM parts) have such issues.

Now if something breaks on an AR--it can be easily fixed by the owner----if your Mini goes down--it will be a trip back to Ruger. You mostly hear about broken firing pins with the Ruger but if you use AMERICAN, BRASS cased ammo this shouldn't be an issue.

The Ruger is tougher in some ways, such as using the butt stock to breach a door--the Ruger will do this with ease and will more than likely put an AR down for good if you were to do this. Not the best use of either but still something to think about.

So there you go---take your pick.
 
sounding like for my needs the mini may be better. looking for equivalence of revolver and 870 between these two. love my 1911s and my browning semis but for down and dirty bang each time i'm more comfortable with the slow and sure. gotta say had even been intrigued by remingtons 7615 or whatever as a similar function as im used to with 870 but taking ar mags.

id opt for the better mags in AR (so ruger mags not drastically more expensive) and dont anticipate a lot of mods plus use factory ammo so parts not quite the concern as for some.

leaning towards the mini as the iron sight toss in the safe, trunk of the car in a scabard when need a bit more range then the 870. like the idea of diff uppers with the ar but for price of a colt ar and extra upper/mags i might be better served with a mini 14 and mini 30.

tbanks for all the help. got an ar and mini lined up to get to the range with to try out now and see if hands on changes thoughts on paper. really appreciate it!
 
thanks again for all the info. got to play with a couple that confirmed a lot of what was said. no hiccups or problems from either. being more familiar with bolt and lever action rifles and pump shotguns the more traditional stock if the mini actually pointed and balanced like an old friend to me. the ar was a bit more of an adjustment. now once all settled in i shot better slowly from the ar but in rapid shots grouped better with the mini (again think its more to do with the mini feeling more familiar). first shot from quickly raising from ready was quicker with the mini for me. the layout of the mini feels more familiar to me but i definately appreciate the ar being a layout once familiar with probably being a bit more fluid and efficient.

with less then 300 rounds through each if right now i had to grab one to defend my family it'd be the mini...but due to being more similar to what i've used. once i had a few thousand rounds through an ar i'm not so sure that would be the same.

now will be deciding if the mini capabilities combined with already feeling familiar and out the box being more effective for me or the ar capabilities and time devoted to learning and aquiring the same level of familiarity is better fir my situation.

thanks again for all the info.
 
I take back my praise for the mini-14!

hm, I think the colt 6920 is better than the mini-14.
 
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Ok, so I bought a mini and the mad wont seat! That is not good! Price? $850 for gun and 150 for ati stock i foolishly bought separately.
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Excuse me if I'm telling you something you already know, but ...

Mini-14 mags can be a little tricky to seat. There's a hole in the top front of the mag that has to engage a pin in the mag well. Once that's in, you rock the back end of the mag up and in.

If you've done all that and it still doesn't work, take it back where you got it and ask them to make it right.
 
You are right

LOL, I was doing it wrong! So, I bring back my praise of the mini-14 and again hate the m-4:neener: Honestly, I'd rather have the colt 6920 high end than a mini but I always liked the mini.
 
M1 Garand, M1 carbine and Mini 14. See a pattern about my preferences?
Just an old fart from the 60's. Buy what you like forget the rest.

Dampoo
 
ando35 said:
"The M4 received a number of strong requests from M-16 users, who liked its smaller profile. Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.” The report adds that “Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached [including via official means like rail mounts].” Since “accessories” can include items like night sights, flashlights, etc., their use is not expected to go away any time soon"

In other words, the m-4 jams when dirty but it is more accurate. The new mini has 2-3 in groups and you can hit a deer or man at 300 yards.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/
Click to expand...
That article was written by someone with an axe to grind, BTW, and actual research has proven the author's "findings" to be inaccurate and the failure rate of the M4 was rather grossly overstated. The article is filled with anecdotes and opinions, neither of which constitute data or facts. The DoD is not actively pursuing a replacement for the M4 because the M4 works, very well.

For the OP's stated purpose, the AR is the way to go. Parts are plentiful if you need them as is expertise. Mags are cheap and plentiful as well and quality aftermarket mags are widely available. The reliability is there, despite what some out there would have you believe.
 
ando35 said:
"The M4 received a number of strong requests from M-16 users, who liked its smaller profile. Among M4 users, however, 19% of said they experienced stoppages in combat – and almost 20% of those said they were “unable to engage the target with that weapon during a significant portion of or the entire firefight after performing immediate or remedial action to clear the stoppage.” The report adds that “Those who attached accessories to their weapon were more likely to experience stoppages, regardless of how the accessories were attached [including via official means like rail mounts].” Since “accessories” can include items like night sights, flashlights, etc., their use is not expected to go away any time soon"

In other words, the m-4 jams when dirty but it is more accurate. The new mini has 2-3 in groups and you can hit a deer or man at 300 yards.

http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/the-usas-m4-carbine-controversy-03289/
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I've never had any problems with my AR's. Even though I like the feel of my mini, I will also have an AR in the safe. I think the only way to critique either of these rifles is to own them both. BTW get yourself an AK also. Who on here thinks they own enough rifles anyway. Not I!
 
I have had a M&P sport for a couple months now. great little rifle . Accurate beyond what I have hope for with stnasard cheap 223 55gr by 400 rounds shooting right at 1" and wolf 75gr hpbt shooting 3/4" No issue of any kind. Just seems to function smoother with rounds fired and the barrel with the R5 rifleing and melonite treatment clean very easy. Just a couple pacth's wet and dry. at 500 rounds. Rifle came well lubed and ready to run. My eyes are not good enought to use open sites well so I went straight to a scope . Local price was 595.00 . Same store has a 300 whisper thats camo'd for 963 or 936. As a scope shooter I did pick up a used RRA freefloat tube and small gas block for 50 bucks. - th_107_4069.gif I have owned many years ago a mini and found ,atleast for me that the accuracy was not very good and sold it, but it worked fine . Not an MI carbine feel to it but ok. Just could not feel good about it in general. I am pleased with the s&w m&p sport and the price is a plus. And the gas system , I find no problems, Shot the first 500 rounds before recleaning and now the next 700 rounds fired with out a cleaning just to see how it works. Add a coule drops of oil to the 2 oiling port on the bolt to keep the bolt wet and run it.
 
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One big advantage for me in the Mini-14........gas piston operation. I'm not a fan of gas impingement.

My 580 series Mini-14, purchased in 2009, will do 1.5" (5) shot groups off of a rest consistently, with my handloads. This is all the accuracy I will ever need.
 
There is exactly zero wrong with direct impingement. All the "problems" with the design have been either exaggerated or fabricated by those trying to sell a "better" system. Piston systems are reliable in weapons designed around it, likewise direct impingement.
 
Years ago I sold a Mini-14 for AR15 pattern rifle. No regrets about the functional improvements. Easier to clear, easier to scope, more aftermarket parts, more options if you want to rebarrel latter.

\\

In some jurisdictions the Mini-14 is under less legal strictures than the AR15 pattern rifles, but that wasn't your question.
 
At current prices, AR. If the mini cost $400 new (like it probably should) they would a) recover their reputation, and b) sell millions of them. But at almost $700...why not get the M&P Sporter? More gun, more options, etc. Or even a full-featured M&P or Stag or something for just a little more.

I had a mini, and I liked it well enough...it is a neat gun...no doubting that. But they just cost too much compared to the competing platforms.

I just bought a real nice, high end-ish 10/22. A mini-14 is basically just a little bit more gun than a 10/22 for more than 3 times the price...maybe 10% more wood, 20% more steel.

I will say that I think mini owners are, by and large a pretty happy bunch so I am not going to knock them really...just too many Benjamins.
 
At current prices, AR. If the mini cost $400 new (like it probably should) they would a) recover their reputation, and b) sell millions of them. But at almost $700...why not get the M&P Sporter? More gun, more options, etc. Or even a full-featured M&P or Stag or something for just a little more.
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A Mini for $400? Not gonna happen, I'm afraid. I think $500 would be a more realistic price point. If you shop around, you can find a nice one for not much more that that.

Mini14.jpg ]

(This is from the latest CDNN catalog.)
 
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At $400-$500 the Mini 14 offered a lot of gun for the money. Now, not so much. I'd go AR again if I wanted to throw .223/5.56 again.
 
I have almost no experience with the Mini but I've had a S&W M&P 15 MOE for a couple of years now and it's been a great gun. I have absolutely no complaints about it and it outshoots my BCM upper (CNMG lower). I know, I know....that's heresy.
They are cutting costs by leaving off the dustcover and foward assist. I've never needed a foward assist in my life but it would be nice to have that option. It would also be nice to have the dustcover but if the gun is going to be a range toy and home defense gun I doubt that you'll be filling it up with dirt in your gun safe.
I'd get the S&W but to each his own. The money I spent on my AR's is a decent chunk of change for me and I wanted the family to be able to use them too. My wife and daughter also prefered the ergos of the AR's over the Mini and have no issues operating them.
The Mini used to take a hit for only having Ruger make reliable hi cap mags. Supposedly the Tapco 2nd generation mags for the Mini are now reliable and affordable (So sayeth the internet anyway).
 
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